1988 GSX1100f engine into 1997 GSX600f teapot

[Dr Jon]

Hi all, just bought a cheap 1988 powerscreen 1100f, going to put the motor into my 1997 600 teapot. Was just curious to hear any advice and experience from anyone out there who's done it. I've looked through the Katriders forum which has loads of good advice and it seems a simple enough swap to do (I did previously fit a 750 teapot engine to this same bike which really was plug and play but the engine was pretty worn out so I put my nice 600 engine back in after a few months). As far as I can see I'll have to scallop a bit out of the cross brace immediately behind the headstock and do the same to the tank support bar. I'm less sure of how well the oil cooler will mount, I've seen some suggestions that I might need to alter the mounts significantly and have new oil lines made up? Great to hear from anyone if this is actually necessary. No worries if so, I think I can probably get some made up pretty easily. I really want to build a proper sleeper so the bike will keep all standard plastics etc. I'd also be grateful for advice on what gearing others have used. I'm not too worried about gearing up for massive top speed (the 750 motor used to show a (slightly optimistic) 150 on the speedo and this is fine, I'm more interested in the massive grunt and the odd cheeky third gear wheelie so I'm guessing the standard 1100 gearing would work pretty well on the 600?

Main reason for the swap is to up the grunt, I do quite a lot of miles in Europe and it takes quite a lot of effort to get the 600 really working on autobhans and peages when it's loaded up. Secondary reason is for laughing my arse off power wheelieing a sleeper and kicking the arse out of tossers on R6's and the like with a scabby old teapot :-)

p.s. the reason I don't just buy a bigger bike is that I'm very fond of this old teapot, I've taken it from 9k miles to 75k miles and it has never ever let me down.

[vizman]

why not just use the 600 oil cooler and sump?

[Dr Jon]

Hi Vizman, the 600 one seems an awful lot smaller than the 1100 (4 rows less I think) and the Katriders advice was to keep the coolers with the right engine. Do you think the 600 one would cool ok with the bigger engine?

[vizman]

sure.... I've ran a smaller oil cooler on my 1216 turbo with no problems. just swop the sumps over [if needed]

[Captain Chaos]

I ran a GSX600F cooler on the 1100 Powerscreen engine in the EFE. Although it is unfaired there are no problems whatsoever. Only during hot summer days in busy trafic it gets a bit hot.

Now the same cooler is on my B12 engined EFE, everything is fine.

Looking forward to seeing this Terrific Teapot thread started in the Projects section.

[Dr Jon]

OK, thanks for the reassurance. I'll see how the big cooler lines up and if it looks awkward I'll just stick with the 600's. Myself and my son have bought the 1100f together (£250 each), he's going to build a 600 streetfighter out of whatever's left over (using my 600 motor and we've got quite a lot of 750f stuff kicking around as well so it'll use the 17" wheels rather than the 16s). I'll see if he wants to sign up and post some pics of his build, he's stuck on a restricted A2 licence (got his own 600 with restrictors in it which goes better than either of us expected) so the fighter will have to be restricted too. He's planning on gearing it very low to make it as much fun as possible, wheelietastic!.

I just want to do the bare minimum to get the 1100 running in my teapot, I've just bought an RF900 rear shock to replace my worn out one, this should help control the backend under acceleration and I think I'm going to have to cough up for some new front disks, mine have done a lot of miles, I rebuilt the calipers last winter along with a complete stripdown and rebuild with all chassis bearings and powder coat, stainless fasteners, etc so it's in pretty good shape.

We've just stripped off the 1100 plastics this afternoon and will have the engine out probably next weekend. Only got Sunday's to work on it so won't strip the 600 down until the xmas break. Hopefully won't take more than a couple of days to get the big motor in and running. I'll post some pics once we get going.

[Motovalet]

Watching this thread with interest as this is exactly what I'm trying to do at the moment but I'm not as far along as you, in so much as I don't yet have a donor motor! Everything else is good to go, painted the frame, swinging arm, wheels, replaced every bearing, swapped out the old teapot 600 shock for a VFR400 one, fitted progressive springs, rebuilt the brake calipers, replaced the steel clip on tubes with alloy ones, binned the centre stand, sorted braided brake lines yada, yada etc. etc. All the 1100F power screen motors I find are £600 minimum which is more than the whole teapot stands me in at! I considered a teapot 750F engine swap like you've already done at one point as they go for a lot less, but now I'm looking at putting long stroke GSXR750 barrels on to the teapot 600 bottom end as this is cheaper still, just not sure if the power hike is great enough to warrant the effort? It may be that if this works I'll do it just to get the bike back on the road until the cash cow comes home to allow me to buy a power screen motor  Anyway, like I said I'll be keeping an eye on your progress, good luck :-)

Edited December 22, 2015 by Motovalet

[Dr Jon]

Hi Motovalet, good to hear someone else planning the same. The 750 is definitely the easiest swap, simple plug and play. Electrics, exhaust, engine brackets, air box etc. all identical just drop the motor and carbs in and off you go. Mid-range grunt on the 750F motor is really strong and it's a lot faster than you might think.

I think the 1100 is not going to be quite as straightforward as some would have us believe, particularly if you want to keep it looking fairly standard as a sleeper which I'm planning (see the link below). I've now got the engine out of the 1100 and on the bench cleaned up, done the valve clearences and given it a once over. Not the best condition motor to be honest, some really noticeable wear on the cams so could probably do with a rebuild but I'll get it in and running anyway for now and see how much I like it, we did get it running quite nicely in the 1100 frame and it sounded a lot better than the cams would suggest so good enough for now anyway. If it seems worth it I might throw some money at it next year and give it a re-bore, camchain and reconditioned cams.

One piece of info that might be useful to you depending on which year of 600 you've got, mine is a 1997/8 and has the throttle position sensor and all the associated extra wiring into the ECU plugs. Well, by coincidence my ECU packed up last week (first serious breakdown with this bike in over 60k miles of ownership! Did get me home on two cylinders though before the last other two cylinders died while checking the coils. My point is that you can use the older ECUs with the fewer wires with the newer throttle sensor wiring harness. I put the 1100f ECU on, you have to cut the block connectors off and rewire direct to the spade connectors in the ECU (or use the correct block connectors if you have them spare) the lower block connector (B/W, B/Y, O/W, W, O/W (coils)) has the same colours on both the newer and older ECUs so just connect those accordingly, for the upper block connector just connect the Yellow, Blue (signal generator) and  Red/Black (rev counter) accordingly and just leave out all the other wires. (The 600 may have Blue/Black rather than Blue but this is the same connection. This has been working fine on the 600 for the last few days. Probably the advance curves and rev limiters are not right for the 600 motor but have got me out of trouble for this week and will of course be just right when I drop the 1100 motor in over the Christmas hols. I don't know for sure but I assume that the wiring on my 600, which the last of the old shape, is the same as the Bandit 600s that followed, it's definitely different to the older 600 that we also have. Anyway, thought that might be useful info. Hoping to start the engine swap straight after Christmas so I'll post on progress. For a definitive guide I would recommend this thread on KatRiders.com

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?233644-92-GSXR-1127-engine-into-750F-Katana-sick

 

 

(P.s. moderators... sorry I had to use the K word, it's an American forum, they don't know any better :-)

[Motovalet]

Thanks for the heads up on the KatRiders forum, I've already read that and spent far too long researching the ups and downs of the proposed 1100f swap than I care to remember! One thing that you may already know is, you don't need to chop the frame to accomodate the breather box on top of the rocker, you can swap it for one off of the teapot 600 as it's slimmer and as far as I know you don't need the top/tank brace either? I put a power screen motor in a Bandit 12 once and it was all very straight forward which is why I thought it would be easy to put it in the teapot motor. My 600 is a 1990 so it doesn't have the TPS on the carbs. I'm thinking a lot more about the barrels form a long stroke GSXR750 now and maybe the head too, it's the cheapest option for me to be honest and the 600 motor I have has high miles at 50,000 but the motor was very good and has a known history so it kind of makes sense. The one think I need to clarify is whether the power will be similar to a GSX750F because if it's not then the full GSX750 plug and play swap may be the way forward as these motors can be picked up for as little as £200! The only other thing I may do is use the swinging arm from the 750F and the rear wheel as the wheel is wider and the swinger is longer, important considerations if I end up sticking an 1100F motor in there! look forward to your post Christmas update, be good to see if you can make it all fit, post some pictures! :-)

   

[Robinjo]

Really like what you are doing there, love sleepers even if my own build surely isn't one...

I've had a 1100 Powerscreen as a daily for a while and I use a 1216 turbo'd version in my project bike, on both I had the same oil temp sensor mounted to keep an eye on things. Probably not the most accurate thing in the world but good for comparing... turned out she got pretty hot behind the full fairing! Allmost allways between 90-100 C, bit more in traffic and during one Autobahn session around 120. 

 Same type of engine, and the same cooler in my nekkid project bike, runs way cooler, allmost allways around 80 C.

[Swiss Toni]

On ‎22‎/‎11‎/‎2015 at 5:38 PM, Dr Jon said:

 

p.s. the reason I don't just buy a bigger bike is that I'm very fond of this old teapot, I've taken it from 9k miles to 75k miles and it has never ever let me down.

And this is how you reward the faithfull  old girl! By ripping her heart out??? 

[Dr Jon]

10 hours ago, Swiss Toni said:

And this is how you reward the faithfull  old girl! By ripping her heart out??? 

Ha, I'd like to think of it more as an upgrade to my faithful friend. You do have a point though, that 600 motor has been very kind to me over the last few years and has earnt my undying respect! It has spent a few months tucked under the bench before while the old girl ran around with a 750F motor in it. Was pretty quick but wasn't anywhere near as sweet as the 600 so it went back in, it's got a bit of a top end rattle at the moment which I haven't had time to investigate, probably just a shim needs replacing. Last time I looked in the top end was about 5,000 miles ago (at approx. 70k miles) and there was no sign of any wear on the cam faces at all, you'd think it had only done a third of the mileage, regular good quality oil changes and the very occasional valve shim are all it needs. Wish I could say the same about the 1100 motor, definitely passed its best but should still be pretty mental and will get a rebuild once I've levelled my out credit card a bit.

Motovalet, I think 50k miles is nothing for these motors if they've been reasonably looked after so I would think the bottom end would handle the 750 top end upgrade no bother. Got no experience of doing it though so couldn't comment on how it would go. My feeling is that if you changed the barrels you would also want the head and cams to go with it, I'm sure there must be some losses using 600 head and valve train on the wider pistons. I would also think the GSXR stuff would be a lot peakier than the GSXF, probably a bit faster but I doubt it would be much better in the real world, the 750F really does have some great low down and mid-range grunt right where you want it for leaving BMW 5 series and Audi owners for dead out of traffic.

The only trouble is that by the time you bought the top end and a gasket set it's not looking so cheap anymore and you would be up to the same sort of money that would buy a 750F motor anyway. The gasket set is nearly £100 on it's own. Main problem with doing it fairly cheaply will be the bigger carbs, a good set can easily be £150. I was lucky enough to find a complete 750F for £200 when I did mine, was pretty ropey though but was fun to do. I sold the bits on for more than I paid anyway so didn't cost me anything (actually made about £50 and had the bike running around as a 750 for the summer.

I hope you're right about swapping the breather covers and not needing to skim out the frame rail, I've heard conflicting advice about this. I'm not so worried about the integrity of the frame at that point, it's only the front tank support and I can weld a reinforcing plate into it no probs, main worry is my lovely powder coating, I stripped the old girl down completely last winter and had the frame nicely powder coated so the last thing I want to do is attack it with a grinder and welder. I've got a nice little engine hoist so it's no problem lifting the motor in and out so I'll try it first with the 600 breather and see if it fits ok, fingers crossed. My other concern is the slightly higher airbox making the back of the tank and front of the seat sit up slightly. I've got a spare airbox so might experiment with a heat gun and see if I can flatten the top slightly, only need an inch or so so will hopefully not compromise the capacity too much. I do still also have the 750F swinging arm which is a little longer than the 600, I still haven't decided whether to go with this, I'll have to ride it and see. I quite like the idea of my flying teapot pinging third gear wheelies so might just leave it shorter. I really like the 1100 swing arm, lovely piece of ally but my son is making a streetfighter out of what is left along with 750F wheels, forks and brakes (A2 licence so will have the 600 motor in it with restrictors) and refuses to part with the swinging arm!

Thanks for the advise on the cooling Robinjo, yes I think I will make the effort to make sure the 1100 cooler goes on, the engine is very tucked away with the standard fairing so I think it will need it. The top and bottom of the 1100 cooler pipes are only joined by hoses and jubilee clips anyway (not sure if this is standard!) so will be no problem to adjust them to suit. Yes, the sleeper thing really appeals to me, can't wait to bump into an R6 or similar with my top box and panniers (and maybe even my winter handlebar muffs on :-)) and leave the fker for dead, ideally on the back wheel. Hah, don't suppose I'll be winning any races round the bends though but it should be king of the straights. I used to have a really scabby tuned GPZ1000RX streetfighter which would easily hit 170 (on the clock anyway) and would leave pretty much  any standard big sports bike for dead in straight line from about 60 to 140 or so, really did not go round corners though and you could feel the frame flexing under full power. Was great fun watching them come hammering back up to me in the bends then watch them go backwards again once I opened it up on the straight again, what fun. Ended up with 11 points on my licence for three years :), sold that and bought a 750WP streetfighter which made 117bhp on the dyno, didn't have anywhere near the grunt or acceleration of the RX but was the best ever wheelie machine, that one was definitely not a sleeper though. 

Edited December 24, 2015 by Dr Jon

[Motovalet]

5 hours ago, Dr Jon said:

Motovalet, I think 50k miles is nothing for these motors if they've been reasonably looked after so I would think the bottom end would handle the 750 top end upgrade no bother. Got no experience of doing it though so couldn't comment on how it would go. My feeling is that if you changed the barrels you would also want the head and cams to go with it, I'm sure there must be some losses using 600 head and valve train on the wider pistons. I would also think the GSXR stuff would be a lot peakier than the GSXF, probably a bit faster but I doubt it would be much better in the real world, the 750F really does have some great low down and mid-range grunt right where you want it for leaving BMW 5 series and Audi owners for dead out of traffic.

Yeah, from digging around a little further it would seem that the 750F motor is actually a GSXR750 motor anyway but from an older model, and yes you're right everybody says it's an underrated motor and actually plenty powerful in the real world. They also seem a lot cheaper, coming in at around £300 plus another £100 or so for the right carbs. So, I've decided that unless a very cheap 1100F or B12 motor comes along early next year then I'll be shoving a 750 in the old girl! It might be a full on mega sleeper but even with a 750F motor in it and a decent pipe I reckon it'll still catch a few crotch rocket pilots out! I'll be posting pics of either route as I progress and I look forward to more instalments of your project :-)

[Dr Jon]

Yeh the 750F is just the old GSXR motor tuned for more mid-range. It is pretty quick by anyone's standards and is the engine the 600 always should have had, got buckets of power just where you feel the lack of it with the 600. I do a lot of loaded up long distance stuff and you really have to bollock the 600 to get it really going then you end up over committed. Back end of the 750 is pig ugly, the 600 is much the better looking bike so great to have the best of both worlds with very little effort.

To be realistic with the 750F in it the teapot is pretty comparable to a good ZZR600 in terms of speed, the ZZR is probably a little faster at the tope end but the 750 would leave it behind on grunt on the A roads. The engine in mine was pretty ropey but would happily spin up to 150 on the clock and hold it there no trouble. Sadly the clocks on these are rather optimistic but I think that's a pretty realistic 142mph or so still makes for a great sleeper.

 

Nearly Christmas now, I've got a nice new stainless steel exhaust off Santa under the tree for my other bike. A 2015 KTM Duke 390, king of the Welsh mountain roads, unbeatable on the tiny twisties but the standard pipe is fkn awful, makes it sound like a cement mixer. Can't wait for my new pipe, reckon  I won't be able to sleep, so excited.

Happy Xmas all.

 

 

[Dr Jon]

Ok, so a quick catch up on the teapot engine swap. Been busy over the last couple of days and the swap is nearly finished, just need some hose to extend the oil cooler lines and fill it up with oil and fire it up. If it's good then bodywork back on and done. I'll post pictures and better descriptions of how it went once I've got it up and running which will hopefully be this afternoon if I can track down some suitable hose without having to resort to Eblag and wait.

I can now answer from experience some of the questions that often come up in threads about this swap.

Main lesson learnt over the last couple of days...

1100F into 600F is almost completely plug and play and has given far less trouble (so far) than anticipated.

It is true that if you swap the 1100F engine breather cover for the one off the 600F then you do NOT need to modify the front frame cross brace that carries the FRONT tank mount. This is an incredibly close fit though, we measured the clearance between the edge of the breather cover and the frame rail with feeler blades at 0.8mm and had to replace the nice stainless steel cover bolts at the front with flat head ones which were a mm or so lower. (Never mind an inch is as good as a mile)

The frame cross brace (removable) that carries the CENTRE of the tank will not even nearly fit. I've left mine off for now but will modify something to fit using a spare one that I have.

Oil cooler mounts need altering with brackets to suit, 1100F cooler lines need extending to suit.

Exhaust fitment will be specific to the exhaust. I have a beautiful Remus 4:2:1 which I do not want to cut up, I have managed to fit it to the 1100F motor but it's not ideal, I had to separate the centre joins and pull them out by a couple of inches for them to pass the back of the sump, system seems to be very firmly mounted but may blow around the join, or even start to come apart. I could just weld at those joins to solve the problem but would rather not.

Newer teapot to older 1100F ECU no problem. As you can see from the posts above I'd already swapped the boxes and had it running on the 600 so no probs here.

I've used the original 600 airbox with the 1100 rubbers fitted (smaller than the 600s!), the thread I linked to above suggested that the airbox would end up an inch or so higher than originally due to the taller topend and therefore the tank back and seat front were set up slightly. This was not true with my 600, all fitted exactly as should and tank/seat mounts perfectly normal. Therefore the rest of the fairing upper panels will be fine too.

 

Still unknown is how the belly pan will fit with the much bigger oilcooler and slightly re-routed lines.

Right, I'll need to go find some hose and get the old girl running, Fingers Crossed. Just hope the motor is worth the effort, did look pretty worn in the cambox but at least there have been no modifications and can return to being the 600 in a matter of a few hours.

 

 

[Motovalet]

Excellent! Looks like you've made a lot of progress. I've chickened out and bought a cheap as chips 750 motor (dot head, short stroke 750J) that may need rebuilding but should still hopefully give the bike a decent power hike!

[Dr Jon]

 

Yeharr, bike is all up and running and has done about 50 miles this afternoon with no problems so far. All panels fitted back on in the usual mounts with no modifications. Had some grief with stuck floats in one carb which was overflowing and leaking so had to take them back off and sort it but no real problems. I've extended the oil lines using 12.7mm car heater hose. Will probably track down something a bit more specific for oil at some point.

Haven't really caned it yet, roads are all still wet, but cautiously took it up to 11k rpm in third which was getting on for 120 mph (obviously on closed private roads, blah) and rolled it on up to about 130 in top. Running the 600 gearing 14:47 which I think would red line somewhere over 150 which is about right. Loads of massive torque and roll on grunt which is what I was after. There is significantly increased vibration through the bars, the 1100F has cast iron weights under the top yoke cover to soak some of this up, I'll probably look to get some softer grips. 

I've taken some photos as I've gone along so will post a selection here, unfortunately our shed is very small and the lighting less than ideal so the phone pics are not so great but should give some idea...

 

 

First picture is of the 600 with its panels off and the 600 motor ready to be stripped and removed

 

 

Close up of the 600 motor in place. Compare to 1100 motor close up further down this list and you can hardly tell the difference

 

 

This is our engine hoist (apologies for picture rotation, can't see how to alter it in this post). This combined with a trolley jack under the motor to adjust the angle makes lifting engines in and out an easy job. Hoist was originally designed to lift people in and out of hospital beds, ideal for motorbike engines. From beginning to strip the 600 out to having the 1100 motor in the frame (although only bolted in at the back and no cradle) took only 2.5 hours. Took a couple of days to finish off all the other jobs though :-)

 

 

I took the chance to swap the old, very tired, shock for a much better condition RF900 item. Fits straight in, strap the remote reservoir to the left hand frame seat rail. Lifts the back end by perhaps an inch or so (over the original knackered shock anyway) and should cope well with the extra power. These shocks are the same as those fitted to the 750F but are much cheaper and generally in better condition. This one was £45 including postage

 

 

Shock fitted, please excuse the filthy state of my bike in these pictures and yes that rough old chain is getting renewed in the next week or so along with the tyres. Underneath all the grime and crap it's all powder coat and stainless steel, honestly.

 

 

 

Here's the 1100 motor in the 600 frame. Very close fit but no modification needed other than replacing the 1100f breather cover on the top of the engine for the one off the 600. Engine hoist, jack and two people made lifting this engine in no trouble at all, I would hate to try the same thing without the hoist. This goes for the 750 as well, if you're swapping engines then beg, borrow or hire an engine hoist, be a total pain without it.

 

 

This is the clearance between the engine breather (600f cover on 1100f motor) and the front fixed frame rail that carries the front tank mount. I also had to replace the nice shiney stainless steel allen bolts with some flatter hex head ones, the allen bolts were tight against the frame rail, the hex heads are about 1mm lower which is as good as a mile as far as I'm concerned. We measured the cover to frame gap with feeler blades -- 0.8mm!

 

 

 

Standard 600 airbox with 1100 rubber to back of carbs (smaller on 1100), all bolt holes line up as they should and fit to the tank rear mount as normal.

 

 

Hydraulic clutch case all fits fine with no modification. I had read that this would foul the frame but not so! Gear lever is standard 1100, could do with being an inch longer but I've got fairly big feet so no real problem.

 

Seem to have reached a limit to how many pictures I can upload. Will post this and see if I can add the last few to another post.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2015 by Dr Jon

[Dr Jon]

Last few pictures...

 

 

See, lots of nice stainless (no polishing though). I had to split the centre joints for this Remus 4:2:1 system and rejoin but with only half the joint in (i.e. making the exhaust about an inch or two longer). This allowed just enough clearance for the v joints to miss the sump at the back. This is system specific and is probably going to be a weak point. I may just end up welding the joint at that point but would rather not. Other than that all exhaust brackets met as they should. Exhaust is very close and is actually up against the sump at one point. Crappy first attempt oil cooler extension brackets can be seen in the background. I did a better job of these on my second attempt.

 

 

Here's the bike complete with 1100f motor. Just done a quick 5 or 6 miles test run to see if all works and no pipes/exhausts etc. falling off and check the sticking float is now cured before replacing the rest of the bodywork.

 

 

 

Close up of the 1100 motor in place. Compare to the very similar picture above of the 600 motor in place. You honestly couldn't tell the difference without a direct comparison. The front of the block and head sticks forward about an inch more than the 600, the same at the back and the top of the head is about the same amount taller. It's very subtle, only real conflict is the tank middle support, the removable frame cross member. This does not even come close to fitting and will need to be modified. I've just left it off for now but will get to it soon enough.

 

 

 

Last pic, bike complete and after a quick jetwash. You would never know that the old girl had been interfered with, not until you tried to get past her on your crappy R6 anyway!

MWAHAHA!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Captain Chaos]

Cool conversion.

If your Teapot 600 has 36mm carbs (I'm not sure), the 1100 would run much better with those after rejetting them.

And the cable operated clutch from the 600 is a straight fit on the 1100 engine. The pushrod length might need adjusting though. My GSX-R750L with 1100F engine also has the 600 sprocket cover and clutch cable for that sleeper appearance.

[Dr Jon]

Thanks Captain. Unfortunately the original 600 carbs are only 31mm, it's just the aperture that meets the airbox that's quite a bit bigger. I've read a lot of complaints about the hydraulic clutch but i have to say that i'm very happy with it. Only done about 100 miles so far but it seems pretty good and surprisingly light for an 1100. My 600 always had a really heavy clutch. Even after renewing the release  mechanism it was still pretty crap so i'm happy with the hydraulic.  Motor seems very sweet despite what looked like a lot of miles in the cam box. No rattles or untoward smoke, starts bang on the button and pulls like a train. Very happy, going to get some new tyres and chain and sprockets tomorrow. Hopefully, the weather might ease off and i'll give it a decent shake down ride for a couple of hundred miles and see how it behaves. Interested to see what the mpg is like. I brimmed the tank and zeroed the miles so will see what it takes to fill it back up after 150 miles. The 600 used to do 100 miles for about a tenner pretty consistently so we'll see what the 1100 does at similar speeds. 

So far so good. Did 50 or so miles this morning in the pouring rain and didn't really want to get off so very happy with the fruits of my 3 days in the shed.

 

 

[Robinjo]

Wow, you've been really busy since I last read this topic! 

Nice to see that everything works out with a bit of carefull messing with. 

I think I have a good spare set of cams if you are interested, maybe some good rockers too.

I've got a 1100F visitor in the shop tomorrow for the clutch mod since it has the draggy clutch like both of mine did, good to read your's is okay. 

 

[Dr Jon]

Well, I don't like to hang about on these little projects :-) Actually wasn't much of a job anyway, apart from the brackets for the cooler it was pretty much just a straightforward engine swap. I guess I spent a total of about 10 or 12 hours on it, including changing the rear shock, fitting some new back brake pads and giving the wiring a bit of a tidy up.

Did another 80 to 100 miles today going down to the bike shop to pick up a new DID x-ring chain. Overdue for a change anyway and a bit of an upgrade in deference to the extra power. I made a mistake in the post above where I said it was running 14:47 gearing. It's actually on 14:45 (I actually counted the teeth this morning) which doesn't feel too far off. It's doing about 4750 rpm at 70 mph. I though I might as well see what it's like going up one on the front since I was buying a new chain and sprockets anyway so have got 15:45, I can always drop back down to 14 then if it feels a bit overgeared.

Weather was bloody awful riding down to the bike shop today but the 6/11 was still a pleasure to ride, running beautifully smoothly, pulls from 2.5k rpm and is very civilised if the revs are kept down. Quite happy ploughing through the Biblical deluge that passes for weather round here with no problems controlling the power through the rather bald back tyre. Obviously would be a different story slightly higher up the rev range but below 6 or 7k rpm it's a total pussy cat and the bike feels very happy with it's new heart. Didn't work out the mpg properly but judging by how much money I've out in the tank over the last 200 miles or so I suspect it is significantly worse than the 600! Perhaps I won't bother working it out too carefully and delude myself that it's likely not that  bad, the extra massive grin that I've got on my face everytime I open the throttle and feel that massive wave of power is probably well worth a few extra litres per 100 miles anyway, probably a total bargain.

 

The clutch is dragging a bit, very pronounced clunk going into first. The 600 was just the same though, if perhaps a bit worse. Haven't realty researched this but I guess this is the plates dragging in the basket on disengaging? Actual engagement and clutch control on pulling away is very good and it ticks over quite happily at 1k rpm in first with the clutch in so doesn't seem too bad.

Thanks for the offer of the cams but I think I'll just leave well enough alone for now, I'm pretty skint after xmas anyway, plus new tyres, chain and sprockets have cleared me out! Motor seems to run along very well without burning any oil and no rattles (slight clutch basket rattle on tick over but even this is not too bad at all and loads quieter than the 750 I had). Be nice at some point in the next few months to buy a reasonable condition complete head and cams and spend a bit of time polishing the inlets/exhausts, lapping all the valve in nicely etc. Going to need to catch up a bit on my credit card first.

 

Happy New Year all.  

 

[Motovalet]

Wow! You didn't hang about getting that sorted! Mine is more of slooowww burn! It's on it's wheels, engineless and awaiting a new donor motor. The 750J I sourced is totally goosed and needs a full rebuild :-( Meanwhile I've sourced and entire 750F teapot for £150!! Motor is dead as the bike has stood outside for a good while but has clean oil and turns over so I'm toying with fitting new rings and stem seals and taking a chance on using this instead or maybe combining the top end from the J motor? That said I've had a very tempting offer on my two smoke Suzook X7 that would fund the entire build with the original planned donor motor of an 1100F like yours!

[Dr Jon]

That does look very nice and clean. I had a  bit of a head start as I stripped mine last winter and powder coated everything, swapped all the nuts and bolts for stainless and replaced all the chassis bearings. Looks pretty scruffy again now as it lives outside all year round and has done about 20k miles since then. Still in great condition under all the grime though so all adds to the sleeper appeal. Sounds like you'd probably have plenty of 750 bits to put a good motor together with a few new bits, depends what you're after really. The 750 would feel a lot sportier and revvier than the 1100 but the top gear roll on power and the massive grunt of the 1100 is absolutely intoxicating. The bike seems to be handling the power beautifully, though given the weather and road conditions I haven't come close to really opening it out yet. As I said in the thread I also changed the rear shock while I was at it and this has made a massive difference to the handling and feel. I didn't really appreciate how knackered my original shock was, I've just adapted to it over the last few years as it slowly deteriorated, but the new RF900 shock has transformed the handling, it's about an inch or so higher at the back and feels fantastic even on worn out tyres. New tyres coming in the post next week and I'll fit the new chain and slightly raised gearing at the same time. I would definitely recommend upgrading the suspension from the standard 600 stuff, particularly if you go for the 1100 motor. I've got 750f forks on mine which I rebuilt last year and these with the RF900 shock work really well and offer a lot of adjustment if you like to play around with set-up.

My carbs still appear to be leaking from somewhere, I can smell petrol quite strongly and it's using a lot of fuel so I'm going to have to take them back off and investigate. I know the float heights are correct and the float valves were definitely sealing when I checked last time so must be leaking around a float chamber gasket somewhere. Could really do with some newer, better carbs but have totally run out of money for now so will have to make do with what I've got. Just wish this bastard rain would stop for a while. It's a lot of hassle getting the big bike into the shed (only 3.5m x 3.5m with a normal house door size) so I have to work outside under a gazebo unless it's a big enough job to be worth manhandling the bike inside.  

[Motovalet]

Well impressed that you got this project on the road so bloody quick! Respect too for the fact that you did it all outside as well! I thought I was hard done by having to work in an unlit, unheated damp timber garage but now I think I'm spoilt! Anyway, my 750J motor is goosed and I'm not sure which bits are interchangeable with the 750F motor I have so I'm going to chance my arm at installing the 750F motor for now. The thing is this motor has not run for a while and has been languishing outside for a while, I want to refresh it as best I can before installing it in the frame so it has a fighting chance of starting and running! The oil looks clean and the engine turns over by hand fine. Before I strip it down I'm after pointers on what I'm likely to need to replace, stem seals, rings, gaskets etc.? I've decided to buy a compression tester and check compression on all four pots, I've no idea what the readings should be but I'm guessing if all four cylinders are the same or there or abouts then there's no real need to take it apart or replace anything, am I right or wrong? As you've obviously got experience with the 600F and the 750F I'm hoping you can give me a few pointers! :-)