Oil Sump swops - again!

[Solcambs]

So I've been concerned about the extra heat my 1216 has been recording on the yosh temp gauge  ... I initially thought it was probably just the relocation of the temp sender (that's another story), but I decided to have a closer look at the part diagrams (see below). The gasket is the same ... but there is an additional oil way on the front right in the bandit motor which I assume does not match the GSXR motor.

I thought I best check the bandit sump I've swopped onto the GSXR1100M (91) and there were differences. So other than the oil strainer and the pickups I had thought this was a straight swop. On closer inspection the oil ways are subtly different. Is this to be expected (i.e. don't worry about it) or is it ... you stupid plonker you needed another bandit sump from [insert year here)? Any help appreciated. The GSXR sump shown in the photo came off the bike. The bandit sump is the one I swopped in.

 

[Dezza]

I am also interested in the differences among the three different types of sump. What was your reason for using a Blandit 1200 sump on a GSXR 1100 slingshot motor in the first place? Do the Blandit/Slingshot sumps have the pressure release valve as does the 1100 slabside sump?

If not, can the valve be removed from the slabside sump? The reason I ask is that by looking at it, if the valve sticks the engine could suffer oil starvation so maybe I could leave mine out on rebuliding or use another type of sump (exhaust routing allowing) ??? Sorry if this (partially) attempts to hijack the thread but the issues are related

Edited September 4, 2019 by Dezza

[Solcambs]

1 hour ago, Dezza said:

I am also interested in the differences among the three different types of sump. What was your reason for using a Blandit 1200 sump on a GSXR 1100 slingshot motor in the first place? Do the Blandit/Slingshot sumps have the pressure release valve as does the 1100 slabside sump?

Purely to aid fitment of a 4-1 exhaust. That's the fallback position. Cut and weld the original GSXR1100 sump.

[Kamikaze]

Im also changing sumps on the 750M to the bandit12 sump for the simple reason of the routing of the 4-1 exhaust.

[CockneyRick]

Done a swap on my drag bike (GSX1100F to B12) & AFAIK there's no problem  

Only issue i had was the strainer mounts are different to take into account of the deep well moved to one side, so you must swap that too.

And again swapped for same reason as you!

Edited September 4, 2019 by CockneyRick

[Solcambs]

1 hour ago, CockneyRick said:

Done a swap on my drag bike (GSX1100F to B12) & AFAIK there's no problem  

Only issue i had was the strainer mounts are different to take into account of the deep well moved to one side, so you must swap that too.

And again swapped for same reason as you!

Looking at the 1100F schematic - the holes are the same!

Edited September 4, 2019 by Solcambs

[Solcambs]

So after lots of checking and and pondering it would seem that the GSXR (91&92) has a relief valve when pressure becomes too high - like when the oil filter becomes bunged up). This allows oil to flow and by-pass the oil filter. The Bandit has no relief valve, but allows a certain amount of oil to by-pass constantly via a reduced diameter feed you'll see below the marked hole. The different circuits mean that the marked oil way is superfluous when using the bandit sump on the GSX engine. So it's blanked it off by tapping and using a home made grub screw and loctited. As without that the main oil pressure is being dumped back into the sump through the oil cooler line and not up into the engine - so noticeable with an increase in temperature measured by the Yoshi temp gauge. At least this is my presumption. We'll see if the mod works. The alternative doesn't fil me with joy as it means that the Racefit exhaust built around the bandit sump will no longer fit if I have to use the GSX sump. 

. 

I plan to fit a oil pressure gauge when I have a moment to check the oil is flowing correctly.

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Solcambs

[Lachie04]

Have you checked the corresponding rifling hole in the bottom case. My bet it's blocked off least it is in my K case as it leads to the main oil gallery and this is not the same as the relief valve plunger on the side of the sump which is purely there for cold oil operation but deleted in latter years

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Edited October 2, 2019 by Lachie04
added pic

[Solcambs]

Yes ... I had the sump off today. I was baffled for a while with some GSXR based matching points (engine side) which turned out to be returns into the sump. However, on working it through, the blanked off bandit  sump channel will no longer flow. This, mated to the GSXR, would have dumped pressure thorough that channel, and straight back into the sump. This together with the temp gauge I was running in that same oil gallery would of curtailed flow to the cooler - hence the increased temps. Instead the flow will go though to the cooler and also have a diversion past the filte via jetted down arrangement in the bandit sump. There will still be flow to the filter, and all should be good, This assumes I have read the oil flow correctly. 

Alll said and done it's the diversion route that is affected, and should that be affected and not working, then pressure would build if the filter is not changed (filter gets  bunged up). I change oil and filter regularly .. so no issue.

[Solcambs]

Actually it would appear the relief valve on the GSXR is to by pass the cooler and allow high pressure oil (when cold) to still flow to the filter. Same difference. With the bandit sump on the GSXR the oil can flow direct to the sump. With the mod, there is a throttled bypass direct to the filter which I assume will work at all times!

[bluecatone]

On 9/4/2019 at 12:06 PM, CockneyRick said:

Done a swap on my drag bike (GSX1100F to B12) & AFAIK there's no problem  

Only issue i had was the strainer mounts are different to take into account of the deep well moved to one side, so you must swap that too.

And again swapped for same reason as you!

No mods on the B12 SUMP? I assuming the B12 SUMP hold less oil, is tha not a problem? I'm thinking to use the the B12 sump and headers on a 88 GSX1100F that is going to be a daily ride.

 

[bluecatone]

On 9/4/2019 at 1:53 PM, Solcambs said:

Looking at the 1100F schematic - the holes are the same!

GSX1100F is the same of GSXR or B12?

[CockneyRick]

On 10/15/2019 at 9:05 PM, bluecatone said:

No mods on the B12 SUMP? I assuming the B12 SUMP hold less oil, is tha not a problem? I'm thinking to use the the B12 sump and headers on a 88 GSX1100F that is going to be a daily ride.

 

Can't say i noticed, but even if it was, we're hardly talking litres here! Plus i'm running aftermarket head & Engine coolers