Arttu
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Posts posted by Arttu
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Usually piston manufacturers give a formula to calculate gaps for different bore sizes.
For 78mm Wisecos I used 0.4mm for the top ring and 0.45 for the second.
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As far as I know quality of chinese turbos vary a lot. There are plenty of examples that have been working just fine but apparently you can still get ones that will fail right away. So I would probably avoid the very cheapest ones and preferably use a supplier that has some reputation and history.
There are quite many variants in the TD04 family. The last number apparently defines the compressor size, bigger the number bigger the maximum power. If I recall correctly TD04-13 is good up to 230-250hp.
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Yes, they are the same. Or at least compatible.
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6 hours ago, Gixer1460 said:
With a turbo you don't need high rpm's!
Well, yes and no. It's true that you can make pretty good power without high rpm. But if you want even more power without running stupidly high boost then there isn't much other choices than keeping the torque up to higher rpm.
Cam selection with turbo is somewhat complicated since the turbo choice affects on how the cams work. Traditional wisdom about short duration turbo cams is true with smaller turbos that run higher exhaust pressure than boost. But if you can keep the exhaust pressure at the same level with boost or even lower then the cams work more like on N/A engine.
But yes, for that 250hp target I wouldn't use anything hotter than stock GSX-R1100 cams.
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19 hours ago, rerb said:
What cams did you use? mine are rusting/pitting on the lobe, and the chrome on my rockers are wearing off, so that's definitely on my list. (motor had 68k miles before turbo) I have busa pistons and APE studs and nuts. Other than that and an HD camchain, the motor is pretty much stock. I'm currently running a td05-16g, which I believe can handle about 300 hp before running out of breath. Do you use an external wastegate?
The mentioned bikes weren't built by me. I just made engine management installation and tuning for them. So I don't know all the exact details about the engines.
One of them had ported Bandit head, some "hot" WebCam cams and Holset HX35 turbo with external gate. Another one had GSX-R1100 head with oversize valves, stock GSX-R cams and TD05-20 turbo with internal gate.
Yes, a TD05-16 should be fine for 250-300hp so I would leave that alone for now. Sounds like you have the most important stuff inside the engine done too. Hotter cams might be a good idea if you have to replace them any ways. That should help to keep torque up at high rpm. But I wouldn't go too extreme with them. For example that one with Web cams was a pain to get mapped properly at the mid rpm range and still didn't give too amazing power figures at top end. I think stock GSX-R cams could be a good compromise. Increasing the compression and tightening the squish clearance could be a good idea since the Busa pistons result very low compression and pretty bad combustion chamber shape. But then you need to be more careful with tuning...
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So, the starting point is a stock Bandit 1200 engine? In that case I think the pistons are the first thing to upgrade inside the engine. As far as I know the stock pistons can't handle much boost. I think the stock rods should be ok for 250hp but if your budget isn't too limited it might be a good insurance to upgrade them too. Just in case if you end up wanting a bit more...
For making power 250hp should be still quite easy even with relatively stock engine. For reference I have recently tuned a couple of Bandits and both made about 300hp at 1.3-1.4 bar boost. Although both of them had ported heads and hotter cams but I think even without those you should be able to get 250hp with about 1 bar boost.
Few things that will help to make more power at lower boost:
- Select a turbo that will work at good efficiency range at your target power.
- Pay attention to exhaust manifold design, especially to collector part.
- Same with the plenum, enough volume and even flow between the cylinders.
- If possible, use some charge cooling. It will help especially if you run more that 1 bar boost.
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What? You don't need to take apart the wheels from the shaft to port the wastegate hole. So no need for balancing.
Just unbolt the turbine housing and knock it off from the ceneter assembly. In real life it might be a bit more difficult since these are often pretty rusty and seized together.
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Generally speaking idle can be leanest where it still runs steadily. In practise that's usually around 13-14 but some engines may want a bit richer around 12.
I guess your hanging idle is somewhat separate issue, like air leak or something similar. And then overly rich mixture happens to fix it.
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It's quite big turbo for your engine. I would guess it makes full boost somewhere around 6000-8000rpm.
Then another thing worth of noting is that if you run it at too low boost and air flow it won't be very efficient. If you look the compressor map you can see that anything under 200hp will be outside of the optimal efficiency range. So in the worst case it won't be any better regarding the exhaust pressure and air temp than some smaller turbo. But if you turn it up to 300hp / 1bar range then you start be at the sweet spot.
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Yep, if the steel center piece has separated from the rest of the hub then it's beyond any repair, I think. Regarding the basket and needle bearing, there is always some play but it's difficult to say what is too much. Unfortunately I think wear would happen equally on all surfaces there, the bearing, basket and shaft. So replacing the bearing may not help much. But on the other hand the bearing isn't very expensive so you can try and see if it gets better.
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5 hours ago, Gixer1460 said:
Isn't that a car plug size? I always thought they were M12 !
Yes, you are right! Sorry for brainfart. I was recalling using an old plug to make an adapter for M14x1.25 oil port but obviously that was some old car plug...
So correct thread is M12x1.25.
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I don't know if the Kat frame is tighter than E frame but on my E it wasn't too difficult to get the head off while the engine was staying in the frame. Naturally everything would be easier with bare engine, once you have got the engine out. But like you were anticipating that will probably bring up some additional little things to fix at the same go...
The plug thread is M14x1.25mm.Thread is M12x1.25. -
4 hours ago, Gixer1460 said:
If you are handy with a soldering iron, a megasquirt or a Speeduino DIY kit is a cheap option for a EFI controller including ignition control. A few on here are using Megasquirt so there is a knowledge base - being careful with the pennies i'd guess a working system could be done for 300 - 350 £ or $ - certainly cheaper than a good set of used RS flatslides !
I would say around 1000€ is quite realistic ballpark figure for basic low cost setup. You can reach that by using some used parts and sourcing new ones carefully. Naturally you can make it cheaper if that's the main goal. Building the ECU by yourself, sourcing all the components from junkyard, cutting corners here and there and so on. Might be interesting as a challenge but I'm not sure if it makes sense if you want a well functioning bike with reasonable efforts.
The ECU itself can naturally use big part of the budget but I would say you shouldn't concentrate too much on price of it. The cheapest DIY version are maybe 150-200€ while you can get reasonably good ones for 350-600€. The rest of the stuff will still cost the same no matter how cheap or expensive the ECU is.
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7 hours ago, Joseph said:
Basic question, but how rideable are these setups (talking about the more reasonable 230-250 hp bikes shown above) ?
I'm thinking spirited riding mode ON, speeding up to a bend, brakes, downshift, revs go up, turbo kicks in due to exhaust surge, and so you're lifting the front wheel while on the angle you're leaning over to take said bend ?
Thats basically what caused the Renault Super 5GT turbo for example to go in straight lines when cornering back in the day
Like mentioned above a well set up bike should be fairly rideable. But naturally the turbo adds its own twist when going through corners. Especially if you let rpm drop below spool-up threshold it can be slightly interesting when the turbo winds up in the middle of the corner. In practise I would say it's fine for normal spirited riding but if you are looking for an ultimate tool for lap records on a circle track then a turbo bike may not be the optimal choice.
For reference, here is an example how it looks when a crappy rider tries to go around a track
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13 hours ago, Reinhoud said:
Arttu and G I X E R 1460, I know you 2 have a lot of HP, I'm not trying to aim for those numbers, reasonably happy with what I have. But how did you get to those high numbers? Just a lot of boost, or did you do other modifications to get there?
Hmm... Well, I guess you can call 320hp with 1.1 bar boost as quite good result for a +30 year old engine construction that makes barely 100hp as stock. So here goes a short analysis.
Factors that help making good power:
- Apparently pretty efficient turbo that is well matched for this boost and power. Exhaust manifold has quite good design as well.
- 1327cc displacement. It always helps to have more cubes, at least if the rest of the parts can support.
- Proper engine management. Helps to get accurate fueling and ignition timing. Although you can probably get pretty much the same results with carbs too if you put enough effort in.
- Moderate head porting with 1mm oversize exhaust valves.
- Overall setup should be pretty well thought out. There aren't any significant bottlenecks or compromises anywhere.
- E85 fuel. Although I have got pretty similar results with normal pump gasoline too so this probably doesn't give that much extra power in my case. It's more about safety headroom.
Things that could be still improved for better power:
- Charge cooling. Currently I'm using just water injection which doesn't help too much with air temp. Proper intercooling would give some noticeable gains even at this relatively low boost level.
- Cams and head. I'm still having the stock cams and due to that the torque starts to fall down pretty steeply after 7000 rpm. If I could keep it up to the limiter the power would increase pretty significantly even without increasing boost or max rpm. More radical head porting would probably help this too.
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Like said above, porting works the same way on boosted engines than on NA engines. But maybe I should add a couple of things that are worth of noting with boosted engines:
- Power gains will be similar, in percentage, than on NA engines. So typically around 10% maximum. If you aren't on the limits with the charger or knock threshold you can gain the same power by relatively small boost increase. On the other hand porting may improve off-boost performance too and make the turbo to spool faster.
- If you are already on the limits of your turbo you may not gain anything with porting since the turbo can't support increased flow.
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There are a couple of cushion washers under the last plate. See:
I'm not exactly sure what's the function of the locking wire since everything should stay in place even without it once the clutch is assembled. Most likely it's there to make assembly easier.
Personally I probably wouldn't remove it unless I doubt there might be something wrong with the last plate or the hub itself.
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8 hours ago, cnap504 said:
Wiseco, CP, MTC, JE ?
I need a piston kit for an 1150, but who makes a reliable street piston 10 to 1 or 10.5 to 1
Wiseco makes 77mm flat top pistons. Those result 1230cc and about 10.5:1 compression. I run these on my turbo engine for several years, nothing bad to say about them.
http://www.wiseco.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ItemID=4345M07700&ModelID=180&ModelYear=1985&AppID=7747
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I would believe what they say. Proboost kits have been on market for quite long time and there are plenty of them in use. As far as I know general opinion is that they work fine when installed by the instructions.
As first hand experience we installed a kit with the same TD05-16 turbo on a friend's Busa. The engine had a high volume oil pump so the pressure was probably around 6-8 bars. The turbo was fine without any additional restrictors or other tricks. -
12 hours ago, Havoc said:
Seems perfect
Good to hear. Although Sander was tweaking it quite meticulously so actually I didn't expect anything else
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Nice to see it used as intended
How is the EFI working for you, behaving well?
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Over the years I have used 10W40, 15W40, 20W50, 10W50 and probably some others too. Mineral, semi-synthetic and full synthetic. Bike oil, car oil and even some "tractor oil". All work ok. However, there have been some slight differences in clutch operation between different oils but I haven't noticed any clear connection to viscosity or oil type. Seems to be just random.
Making the clutch drag free, or even close, can be quite delicate job on these engines. The first thing is to make sure that you get full travel from the lever to the clutch pack. Second common problem is grooves on the clutch hub and basket which prevents the plates moving smoothly. Then the plates can be bent/warped which will cause dragging too. Also sometimes there seems to be a good amount of black magic involved too...-
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Yes, both will work and usually difference isn't huge. But if you are using big injectors it may become more important. With big injectors the challenge is to get good enough fuel delivery resolution for idle and low load. And now if you don't have vacuum connected to the regulator the injectors will effectively get even bigger exactly where you would need the maximum resolution.
Otherwise it's like you said, you will just tune around the varying injector flow. But naturally that's yet another variable to be compensated by the tune.
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Ideally you want the fuel pressure react to vacuum too. That way the pressure over the injectors stays constant and you get always the same amount of fuel with certain injection duration. Without vacuum to the regulator the effective pressure will get higher when there is vacuum at the intake and that results worse resolution for tuning.
If the take-offs are done properly the pressure shouldn't jump too much.
ring gap
in Forced Induction
Posted
There were different values for boosted, NA, street and race. If I recall correctly this 0.4/0.45 was for boosted street. And it was working fine for me.