Can anyone tell me what the cause of the poor running is please?

[Johno74]

Hi everybody, i'm looking for some help with my say what now!? please.
This should be a short vid of my GSXR1100WR running:
https://youtu.be/0eEPiWIZgTQ
I've just rebuilt it and even i can tell that there is something not quite right with it. Obviously it's the nasty metallic sound that i'm keen to sort out but although it does tick over it doesn't run 'well'.
I'm wondering whether i have the timing one tooth out.
The first pic shows the 1 & 2 marks at TDC as they currently are

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This is where the tag needs to be to get the alignment in the last pic-ie PAST TDC

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Does this pic show correct alignment of the 1 mark against the cylinder head?

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Am i a tooth out? Presumably the bike wouldn't run if i'm 2 teeth out (?)
Also this little vid shows me rattling the camchain-is this ok or is the chain knackered?
https://youtu.be/WHo6EJMN7nU

Any help welcome people-thanks

Edited July 12, 2015 by Johno74
mistake

[badgerkdd]

As for your timing issue I can't help but the cam chain looks a little slack to me. How does it measure up for wear according to the manual's measurements ? 

[Kristjan]

Don't mess with wrong timing. You WILL bend the valves and soon the valve head will snap from the stem. That  will result in serious engine damage in near future. These engines are tight, so there's not much room for an error.

Here's your guide to set it up:

 

 

Edited July 12, 2015 by Kristjan

[badgerkdd]

First pic seems to show the 1 and 2 are in the correct position to the cam chain. Maybe more information and pics are needed, like how much of the engine has been rebuilt, what was wrong in the first place etc. This might help diagnosis.

 

[Johno74]

First pic seems to show the 1 and 2 are in the correct position to the cam chain. Maybe more information and pics are needed, like how much of the engine has been rebuilt, what was wrong in the first place etc. This might help diagnosis.

 

Thanks for your input Kristjan, absolutely agree with dont want to mess with timing but which pic-1 or 3 matches the manual best and if its pic 3 is the difference enough to let the bike run still but sound like a bag of nails..?

Nice one Badgerkdd too-thanks. BIke was rebuilt because one of the exhaust valve had burnt due to there being no clearance at all on it. Head was taken off and all the valves that needed reseating ( 3 of them) were done professionally and i tested them all with diesel overnight afterwards- ie check the diesel was still pooled in the upturned head in the morning. Clearance re-shimmed on that 'no clearance valve' and then all others re-checked and then rebuilt with new head gasket. So not too drastic but still head off etc. Engine ran nicely enough before-no nasty metallic noises but unfortunately i didnt think to see how it was timed etc before it was taken apart..

[badgerkdd]

pic 3 shows 1st mark slightly out of position, its only slight and may not be an issue, also it may be down to a worn chain? I've always been taught to keep it simple when diagnosing problems. The cam chain sounds definitely rattly to me, so I would deal with that first. Measure the cam chain for wear tolerance limits, check the tensioner is actually tensioning properly. Once you have either sorted or found its working fine and the chain is fine, then you can go back to your timing. Also check the cams etc, have you tightened everything correctly and in the correct order, it might be something simple like that?

 

If the problem is still there after all that, try moving one tooth? it will either look better and in the exact position as described or will look totally out? I've not messed with timing before, last time I did a valve clearence check was on my old Bandit and that was the screw type, so no removing cams etc. was necessary. I am only giving advice based on what I've learned on other engine jobs. Hopefully someone with greater experience will come along and be more helpful  

[Kristjan]

Diesel is shit for checking valve leakage, as it's thick. Gasoline is much better, but if you want to compare different combustion chambers, use air pressure.

Put the crank on the TDC mark and look at the end of cams like in picture #2. Do you have the stripes and notches on the same place like that? Stripes have to be "level" with gasket surface.

Did you remove the gears from camshafts during rebuld and what's your valve clearance?

If cam chain has much slack, it's either worn to death or your tensioner isn't up to the job.

 

Check the chain:

[Johno74]

Thanks for you input again guys. 

badgerkdd - will see how the chain compares to specs. Camchain tensioner currently a OEM so apparently not a great piece of kit. Maybe THE time to move to an APE or similar. Will check over everything again-hopefully it is something simple and i havent damaged anything..

Diesel is shit for checking valve leakage, as it's thick. Gasoline is much better, but if you want to compare different combustion chambers, use air pressure.

Put the crank on the TDC mark and look at the end of cams like in picture #2. Do you have the stripes and notches on the same place like that? Stripes have to be "level" with gasket surface.

Did you remove the gears from camshafts during rebuld and what's your valve clearance?

If cam chain has much slack, it's either worn to death or your tensioner isn't up to the job.

 

Forgot to mention- when the diesel was in upturned head i used airline to blow thru each port in turn to show leaks by bubbles in the respective valves in turn.

I dont follow what you mean by gears on the camshafts- do you mean the sprockets that hold the camchain on each cam? if so no,i didn't touch them. I did check the clearances several times and im confident that they are correct/ within tolerances but if my timing is out then presumably that will mess with my clearances too..(?)

Edited July 13, 2015 by Johno74

[Kristjan]

Yes, sprockets, pardon me. Sometimes the right words just don't come out.

Timing won't affect clearances and stock cam chain tensioner is enough for most applications, just make sure it's working nicely. Manual tensioners need attention from time to time and will make the chain rattly if left untouched for too long; or cause damage from improper chain tensioning technique (not much force needed).