[Rupe]

Afternoon Rupe, welcome to the madhouse.

Im currently in the process of rebuilding my 600 teapot and i'll be fitting a 1100f swinger with a kindly donated 4.5" slingy wheel.

Im not sure what year yours is but from my own opinion the 4.5" wheel is bloody tight inside the mk1 standard swinger.

[Teapot frame stiffness]

Proud to be featured above  and more than okay to use any pics mate.

From my limited knowledge I'd agree, from my thoughts it'd be somewhere between the gsxr and the bandit in regards to frame stiffness and with relevant mods I'd think they could be made to go pretty well, as some on here have already proven. I'd like to think they are a great entry/mid level machine for track/fast road use. Thats what mine will eventually be getting use for anyway purely for cost of repairs and mod options.

[Bandit 600 head onto my GSX600F?]

2 minutes ago, fatblokeonbandit said:

It’s all easy enough, depending on the year, you might need to swop the ignition pick up, neutral switch, and alternator as the plugs are different between mk1 and later mk2, and the sups will swop straight over with pick ups, check the oil drain tubes as well as some are different.

Brilliant thank you! I'm feeling pretty good about being able to get this done now!

[Bandit 600 head onto my GSX600F?]

2 minutes ago, davecara said:

Yeah he's not the most responsive unless its still hes already stripped and tagged up. I tend to wander in there and take bikes apart myself 

 

Work wise, absolutley none iirc. Your 600 out, drop a 750 in. You might need a clutch cable

Carbs? Exhaust?

[Bandit 600 head onto my GSX600F?]

Is that peninsula? I did message but it's been read and not replied to. 

[Bandit 600 head onto my GSX600F?]

4 minutes ago, davecara said:

I'm trying to wangle a dot motor out of the breakers in Wallasey, I dont hes got half a dozen gsxr750 engines in there. Want me try and get one out of there cheap for you?

What work would need to be done to get a 750 in? Budget really is a real issue with this project and I don't want to spend more than I ideally need to. 

[Bandit 600 head onto my GSX600F?]

9 minutes ago, wraith said:

Yes MK1 and mk2 will both fit. The mk2 had different carbs to the MK1 and it had the electrical Speedo coming off the front sprocket but never of them are a problem. 

Don't know it the later bandit with the 650 was a bigger bore or not but I've heard they don't give as much power out (bhp)???

Some of the gsx600f had a tin top carb fitted (similar to the gsxr ones but smaller bore) and some had the more commen plastic tops, think the tin tops where 33mm and the plastic 32mm? 

Again look at the later post 2000 gsxf 600 engines as they probably won't of been as thrashed as a bandit 

Thank you so much! I've got the plastic top gsxf carbs currently. I'll see if I can find a good mk2 then. The post 2000 gsxf would be a mk2 too wouldn't it? 

[Bandit 600 head onto my GSX600F?]

3 minutes ago, DAZ said:

I'm sure when you lifted the lid on those cams your heart sank,but the oss nation want you to win and get your bike on the road the winter solstice is passed summer is on its way!!

Do you know what, part of me was a little gutted. Part of me was a little relieved to maybe be one step closer to identifying the issues I've had getting this thing running. I've rebuilt bikes before but they've always just kind of worked after a little tinkering,  this has been a headache so I'm excited and keen to be making progress again. The help from here is absolutely second to none as well and can't wait to actually be enjoying the thing! I'm a little fond of it it seems haha

[Bandit 600 head onto my GSX600F?]

9 minutes ago, DAZ said:

I don't think there is much difference apart from age and I seem to recall that the very last ones 2005/6ish went big bore at 650!  main thing is if you are buying from a breaker you want a 30 day warranty on it if you can so you can fit it and get it running ,be cheeky ask to look at cams if possible,the odd scruffy cover is ok as you will have yours to put on and generally the donor will becoming from an accident damaged bike which is ok usually as you know it was running at the time hope this helps

Helps massively mate, its really appreciated! 

[Bandit 600 head onto my GSX600F?]

6 minutes ago, DAZ said:

The carbs should be ok ,as I said earlier you may need to swap the intake boots(rubbers) as the carbs maybe at a different angle or spacing but the boots will transfer and line them up ,you will need new o rings at the head side but you can get them off the bay 

Fantastic, I have new o rings en route anyway. Sounds like a plan! I've found a mk1 engine very local for £200. Just going to try and find out if a mk2 would be better.

[Bandit 600 head onto my GSX600F?]

5 hours ago, wraith said:

As a head swap as above the can chains are different etc so not straight forward. 

As a engine change, yes they will go, you will need to change the sumps and oil return pipes and filter bending on what exhaust you have 4-2 or 4-1 

Carbs are also different

But as a engine change go ahead you will have all the bits you may need to swap with your old engine anyway and finding a cheep good b6 engine will be much easier than to find a gsx600f engine

You can also look at the MK2 b6 and the latter gsxf engine 

Fantastic! Thank you very much, I think that's the route I'll take.

So the gsxf carbs won't run on the bandit engine? If not, not a massive issue.

Are the mk2 b6 engines similar then? 

[Bandit 600 head onto my GSX600F?]

35 minutes ago, TonyGee said:

the B6 doesn't have the small sprocket between the cam sprockets so their will be a chain length issue, plus I think they use different chains. 

best bet go for a GSX750F engine, you don't have to use the extra power if you don't want to 

The issue with that is finding one. They aren't cheap and I don't want to spend any more than necessary to get it up and running. 

[Bandit 600 head onto my GSX600F?]

1 hour ago, DAZ said:

I honestly cannot see why it wouldn't be a easy swap,use the gsx intake boots oil cooler pipes maybe have to swap sump and rocker cover breather over if any clearance issue using bandit ones,and tbh there will be loads of help on here to talk you through it 

I think physically they look almost identical so I'm hoping so!

[Bandit 600 head onto my GSX600F?]

I think the real call here is just a complete engine swap, I don't know the condition of the rest of the engine and if the head is that bad then there's a chance the bottom end ain't great either.

Now I don't want or need more power, as lovely as a 750 or even a 1200 sounds. A 600 is plenty for me for now.

Is a mk1 bandit 600 a straight swap. Retaining all the gsxf ancillaries and just swapping the motor itself? 

If so I'll find a good low miler and spend the time cleaning it up and swap it in. There's loads of them about and they are cheap!

[Bandit 600 head onto my GSX600F?]

To save bombing the build thread, I'll put the question here if that's okay?

So as it seems the cams and rockers are trash in my GSXF head it seems I need to replace.

Now my question is whether the Bandit 600 head is a straight swap (no unfortunately they aren't identical), because if so I can get one. If they are a straight swap then as they are not shimmed it looks far easier to keep up with valve clearance maintenance whereas the GSX600F head needs shims replaced to do so.

Anyone able to clear up if it's as easy as just swapping the head and cams from one to the other. Or does more change between the two? 

Pics of my cams and head to show.

[Balancing carbs and adjusting idle]

Just now, Gixer1460 said:

It's a f**king big hole then! Most are, sizewise, like the staggered two at the top !

Looks the same as the holes in both sets of carbs I have? 

[Balancing carbs and adjusting idle]

13 hours ago, Gixer1460 said:

Those / that mixture screw looks like its projecting too far and is possibly screwed in too far - I had a set of RS carbs like that and had to literally dig the screws out cos the tips broke off the rest of the screw. May or may not be anything but could be an issue?

Gotta clarify, that's not the tip of a mix screw. That's just the edge of the larger hole. There's nothing sticking through at all. 

[Balancing carbs and adjusting idle]

On 12/14/2022 at 4:00 PM, TonyGee said:

I set the butterflies up on the bench first, open the idle screw a fare bit so you can get a thin drill bit under one, then set the rest the same.  then you can do them on the bike with the gauges.  (dont forget to adjust the idle screw before starting)  

Not the best pics but this is where I set them to before fitting them to the bike. 

[Balancing carbs and adjusting idle]

12 minutes ago, bluedog59 said:

Correct. Where the carb enters the rubber, between rubber and head or through cracks in the rubber.  Have you got the standard clips at the carb/inlet rubber joint ? If you're using Jubilee clips it's possible to overtighten them and create a leak.

No I am using jubilees, but the fit of the carbs into the rubbers is very very snug even before I nip the hose clips up 

[Balancing carbs and adjusting idle]

1 hour ago, bluedog59 said:

If the cylinder is drawing air from before the carb there will be little or no depression/vacuum/Venturi effect over the jet. Carbs don't suck fuel through the jets, it is pushed through by the atmospheric pressure in the float chamber against the low pressure in the carb bore. Air coming in before the carb will result in less via the carb = less depression etc = no fuel flow.  At higher rpm air flow via leak falls as % of total flow creating some depression to allow fuel flow but not enough to feed air intake of carb and leak combined. Result ? Weak mixture.

A bit long winded but an explanation of the thinking behind my theory.

So when you say before the carb I'm guessing you mean any air that does not travel through the body of the carburettor itself to reach the cylinder? 

[Balancing carbs and adjusting idle]

15 minutes ago, bluedog59 said:

If the cylinder is drawing air other than through the carb there is less flow to active the pilot system and high idle is classic air leak.

Sounds reasonable to me!

[Balancing carbs and adjusting idle]

Just now, Omegasteve said:

That sounds very reasonable to me, so we are pointing fingers at the manifold seals again? I have now ordered new seals and I'll inspect the couplings thoroughly (although they look fine to me) just to put mind at ease. 

And that would cause high idle and hard starting?

[Balancing carbs and adjusting idle]

4 minutes ago, bluedog59 said:

Ok, theory time (and we all know theory and real world don't always tally up).

Carbs butterflies set evenly by eye should give roughly the same amount of resistance to flow (vacuum).

Butterflies set to achieve equal vacuum at point of measurement at carb vastly different to each other.

That suggests (in theory) that there may be an air leak between carb and head on the cylinder(s) that needed the butterflies closing to balance them using the gauges.

That sounds very reasonable to me, so we are pointing fingers at the manifold seals again? I have now ordered new seals and I'll inspect the couplings thoroughly (although they look fine to me) just to put mind at ease. 

[Balancing carbs and adjusting idle]

10 minutes ago, bluedog59 said:

Was there much difference between your "by eye" settings and the ones using the gauges 

Oh absolutely

[Balancing carbs and adjusting idle]

I'll see if I can get a pic of where I set mine to