Did my bottom end let go?

[Maxxii]

The bike is a 96 bandit 600

The engine, I'm told is an 88 katana 1100. The numbers on the engine are 1127cc, and v706 on the engine case. 

I replaced the clutch disks with new ones. Buttoned it all back up and put in fresh oil. The friction disks soaked for several hours. And I cleaned up the steels. 

Then I started her and let her warm up for a couple of minutes and suddenly she died. Was running fine before. 

Restarted her, but she sounded really bad and died at idle. Pulled the spark plugs. They looked good. Did a compression test. Got 150psi on all cylinders. 

 

A couple of days ago, I had a cylinder fill with fuel because the float levels were off. Fixed that and replaced the oil then too. 

 

Could the fuel in the oil have killed a bearing that quickly? 

 

[bluedog59]

You've just had the clutch apart, logic says look there first for the problem.

[Maxxii]

31 minutes ago, bluedog59 said:

You've just had the clutch apart, logic says look there first for the problem.

I did so. Drained the oil, pulled the cover back off, and looked. It looked fine! As clean as when I put her together the first time. Got a flashlight and looked at all the gears around it I could see. Ran the starter for a couple of seconds with the plugs out to make sure nothing was grinding. Everything looked okay to me. 

[Sheep]

Maybe the carbs still need attention.....

Does it make any thumps or dull knocks from anywhere?

 

[Maxxii]

1 hour ago, Sheep said:

Maybe the carbs still need attention.....

Does it make any thumps or dull knocks from anywhere?

 

No thumps. I can get her to start and run if I hold the throttle open a bit, but she makes a labored grindy sort of noise from the crank area. Listened while I had the side open and was just turning it over with the starter. Plugs were out. No thumps or pops. 

[MeanBean49]

Bearing shells do die very quickly indeed if they have been damaged, would take a lot of fuel in the oil to do it. But turning the motor over with a cylinder full of fuel can damage one and then when the motor runs the bearing dies very quick.

Best thing to do is drop the oil and look for lots and lots of copper glitter in it. And look at the bottom of the rods, any that have gone will be a darker brown/blue/black colour withshreds of bearing either side.

[Maxxii]

40 minutes ago, MeanBean49 said:

Bearing shells do die very quickly indeed if they have been damaged, would take a lot of fuel in the oil to do it. But turning the motor over with a cylinder full of fuel can damage one and then when the motor runs the bearing dies very quick.

Best thing to do is drop the oil and look for lots and lots of copper glitter in it. And look at the bottom of the rods, any that have gone will be a darker brown/blue/black colour withshreds of bearing either side.

I didnt see anything in the oil at the time I drained it again to open the side of the case back up. I should have thought of that and paid closer attention to that. 

 

I have an 86 GSXR1100 that has some cracks in the frame. I was saving it until I learned to rig weld to repair it. For now, would that engine swap into the 96 bandit 600 frame? 

 

The engine in the GSXR1100 has no cylinder bore number but is a u703 engine case number. 

[Gixer1460]

Unlikely but did you take the clutch basket out? Could have misplaced it and mashed the oil pump gears on the alt. gear?

[CockneyRick]

As above, remove the whole clutch & check it all out  

[nlovien]

did you do the compression check after the fuel in cylinder issue ? if not take a look again - could be a bent rod to add to yir wow's

[Maxxii]

10 hours ago, Gixer1460 said:

Unlikely but did you take the clutch basket out? Could have misplaced it and mashed the oil pump gears on the alt. gear?

No sir. Took the présure plate and springs out. But didn't mess with the basket nut at all. Just eased the friction/steels out one by one. 

[Maxxii]

7 hours ago, nlovien said:

did you do the compression check after the fuel in cylinder issue ? if not take a look again - could be a bent rod to add to yir wow's

Compression test was after the fuel in cyl, an oil change, ran for a few min after oil change, changed clutch, fresh oil again. 

So 2 rounds of fresh oil. 

[Maxxii]

Going to pull the clutch side cover on the spare bike I've got. Check that the clutch baskets are identical so I can at least put the new clutch in it if I do need to swap the motor. 

The motor in the say what now!? is known good. Has a touch of clutch slip. So I want to swap it so I can still ride while I fix the 1127 motor. 

I'll swap it on the weekend, when  have time off and then start getting into the 1127 motor. 

Does anyone know if a u703 engine has same mounting points as a v706? 

[Maxxii]

Here are the two bikes in question. The bandit is where I think the bottom end is gone. The 1100 is what I'm hoping to use as a temporary donner. 

[clivegto]

Should drop straight in.

[Maxxii]

15 hours ago, clivegto said:

Should drop straight in.

Thank goodness! I hope you're right. Spent a few hours yesterday before work stripping both bikes. 

I'll be getting some help to swap the engines this weekend. 

[Maxxii]

And once I get the bandit engine out, I'll open her up and find out exactly what happened.

[clivegto]

1 hour ago, Maxxii said:

And once I get the bandit engine out, I'll open her up and find out exactly what happened.

You might have to swap the sumps & oil pick up as well as the ignition pick ups .

[Maxxii]

46 minutes ago, clivegto said:

You might have to swap the sumps & oil pick up as well as the ignition pick ups .

Would changing the sump be because of frame/exhaust clearance? 

And why would I need to change the ignition pickups? Should I use the gsxr CDI box? 

[clivegto]

Sump for oil cooler pipes & may be exhaust clearance. Some ignition pick ups have 1 pick up some have 2. If there the same no need to swap. No need to swap the cdi so long as you have he right ignition pick ups.

[Maxxii]

5 minutes ago, clivegto said:

Sump for oil cooler pipes & may be exhaust clearance. Some ignition pick ups have 1 pick up some have 2. If there the same no need to swap. No need to swap the cdi so long as you have he right ignition pick ups.

I don't have gaskets for any of those. I'd have to order em in and delay the engine swap. Could I do those once the engine is back in the bandit frame? I'll have to check that this weekend. 

 

Anything else anyone can sugest I do? I'm familiar with these bikes, their electrical systems, carbs, all of that. But I've never upened up one of these engines until that clutch change. 

[clivegto]

Can be done in the frame, serial box's are your friend if your short of a gasket.

[Maxxii]

7 hours ago, clivegto said:

Can be done in the frame, serial box's are your friend if your short of a gasket.

Wait, really? Does that work??? 

[Mole28]

Sump gaskets don't usually rip when taken off carefully., Unless someone has used excessive sealant on them. Ignition pickup cover gasket is easily made from cardboard (cereal packet birthday card or other single ply cardboard). Make sure to clean the oil pickup filter when you have the sump off. This filter will also give you an idea of what went wrong with the dead engine. You will have to use the sump and oil pickup from the bandit engine to match up with the bandit oil cooler lines. Remove and wash out the bandit oil cooler before restarting the bike.

[Maxxii]

3 minutes ago, Mole28 said:

Sump gaskets don't usually rip when taken off carefully., Unless someone has used excessive sealant on them. Ignition pickup cover gasket is easily made from cardboard (cereal packet birthday card or other single ply cardboard). Make sure to clean the oil pickup filter when you have the sump off. This filter will also give you an idea of what went wrong with the dead engine. You will have to use the sump and oil pickup from the bandit engine to match up with the bandit oil cooler lines. Remove and wash out the bandit oil cooler before restarting the bike.

Good to know thanks for the info! Is there anything else I should think about swapping?