SBK1000 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 I was also able to mount the front 2008 GSXR1000 front wheel to the 1989 GSXR1100 forks... The wheel is center on the forks, axle torqued down, calipers torqued down... Wheel spins. Unfortunately, you lose the speedometer pick up... Quote Link to comment
boilerdude Posted August 29, 2017 Author Share Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) Thinking about just having a machine shop tap new bigger holes (drilled all new in between the existing holes). Then have sprocket specialists make me the sprocket. That should at least be "less" of a liability right? p.s: Idgaf I'm running them anyway... those 3 spokes are boring they look stock and yes these are still bling. STILL. finally got the wheel off. Of course it is non cush drive. But the bolts and threads are decent still. Compared with a 5.5 slingy wheel. they are same. not 6 inch. Perhaps there was also a 6 inch Edited August 29, 2017 by boilerdude Quote Link to comment
no class Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 Idgaf either..... ybyl.....as for bling.... ycbthsst Quote Link to comment
SBK1000 Posted August 29, 2017 Share Posted August 29, 2017 (edited) I would not run them without cush drive.... Post a picture of the hub where the sprocket mounts to. You may need to make a hub with a bearing, a spacer between bearings, and another spacer to the swing arm... Edited August 29, 2017 by SBK1000 Quote Link to comment
boilerdude Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) Sorry I didn't mean to come off rude. But we're talking about how to make them better. You obviously had a horrible experience with these in their original form. And also under moderately extraordinary conditions. I'm gonna try to both make them stronger and also perhaps not pull on them quite so hard. Also I googled that last acronym. Doesn't appear to be a known thing. I have no idea what it means. 8 letters is too advanced for me. they look like that. 2 and 1/2 inch inner lip. 6 holes. I was thinking scrap those holes and tap new bigger holes in between. I say that because these ones are outside of the "lane" a little bit and there's not a whole lot of metal left on the outside. You say it sheared the bolts right off. So ok hows about bigger ones? And not turbo power but ~140 hp dot head build. I shift with the clutch. I blip downshifts. I ride smoothly. I still dont understand why I cant just do BIGGER bolts and be done with it... Do you guys keep saying "dont run without a cush drive" becuase it'sthat much harder on the bike? Edited August 30, 2017 by boilerdude Quote Link to comment
Gammaboy Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 Go talk to some of the Supermotard guys about running non cush SM wheels on the road. It's a shit idea. Custom sprocket, machined to take 6 of the rubber donut cush rubbers that Ducati 916s /Dymags/Machesinis etc use, screwed onto the the original hub with a stainless shim between the sprocket backside and the hub. Like these: https://mcet.de/eshop/en/en-galespeed-accessories/galespeed-cush-drive-dampers-set Quote Link to comment
boilerdude Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) Excellent. Talking to sprocket specialists now. Why do I need a shim between sprocket backside and hub? theyre meant to rest against each other. It seems like that would only set off my chain run... Not sure i get that part. Just put in inserts, and bolt it on. Why a shim on the backside? Also could somebody please explain the cush drive thing to me in more words than just "I wouldn't". Like why dont you just go ahead and inform me of whats been happening to the supermoto guys. That would be much more helpful. Rather than just the same old platitude for the 5th time. Somebody please follow up the "I wouldn't run without a cush drive" with your reason for why. Just one person. please. Communicate this issue in it's entirety for better understanding. Thumpers tend to have more engine braking COMBINED with the fact dirt bike riders tend to not throttle blip downshifts. Or even use the clutch at all besides stopping and going. Edited August 30, 2017 by boilerdude Quote Link to comment
SBK1000 Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 (edited) Quote A cush drive is a part of a motorcycle or scooter drive-train that is designed to reduce stress from engine torque damaging other components during gear or throttle changes. A common design used by almost all street motorcycles, it has three major pieces: the wheel, the sprocket assembly, and the rubber damper. I heard that no cush drive WAS used on drag strip bikes to get a direct power to the ground. But they stop using it as the advantage was not worth the damage. Does the hub bolt on to the spokes? maybe you can remove them and have a machine shop make a new hub with a cush drive something off another motorcycle maybe. Look how big the cush rubbers are off a stock 1100... The second picture is the cush drive of aftermarket Dymag wheels... The allen bolts are the studs for the sprocket carrier and the part of the cush drive. The rubbers have a metal center and about 3/8" of rubber. You would need a hub with enough metal to take those rubbers. Edited August 30, 2017 by SBK1000 Quote Link to comment
Dezza Posted August 30, 2017 Share Posted August 30, 2017 What about a sprocket carrier with the cush drive in? Many aftermarket wheels use this 'arse-about-face' method, e.g. Dymag, Marchesini, Marvic, Tecnomagnesio. The rubber inserts (available from e.g. Dymag) are set into a sprocket carrier and go over the heads of large Allen bolts screwed into the wheel hub. Quote Link to comment
boilerdude Posted August 30, 2017 Author Share Posted August 30, 2017 These are all excellent suggestions. I'm asking sprocket specialists if they have any experience doing improvised cush drive solutions. Quote Link to comment
Gammaboy Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 On 8/30/2017 at 10:08 PM, boilerdude said: Excellent. Talking to sprocket specialists now. Why do I need a shim between sprocket backside and hub? theyre meant to rest against each other. It seems like that would only set off my chain run... Not sure i get that part. Just put in inserts, and bolt it on. Why a shim on the backside? Also could somebody please explain the cush drive thing to me in more words than just "I wouldn't". Like why dont you just go ahead and inform me of whats been happening to the supermoto guys. That would be much more helpful. Rather than just the same old platitude for the 5th time. Somebody please follow up the "I wouldn't run without a cush drive" with your reason for why. Just one person. please. Communicate this issue in it's entirety for better understanding. Thumpers tend to have more engine braking COMBINED with the fact dirt bike riders tend to not throttle blip downshifts. Or even use the clutch at all besides stopping and going. Re: the shim - it's there to stop the the sprocket, which can move back and forwards on the cush rubbers, from wearing against the hub and turning both pieces to junk. Re: Why cush drives - Ok, long story short, shock loadings. Because a chain has to have some slack, the engine and wheel can accelerate/decelerate independently of each other untill the chain pulls tight - and when it pulls tight, a shock load is applied to the chain, sprockets, sprocket mounting bolts/hub, gearbox output splines (once the sprocket nut loosens, and it will loosen), gearbox and clutch (although the springs in the clutch basket will absorb some of it). This shock loading will cause all of the things in chain to be flogged and eventually fail. This is a serious issue for road bikes where this shock load cycle can be repeated over and over and over in normal riding (particularly during part throttle cruise - ever noticed the bike shunting when the chain is loose?), where as on a race bike because the throttle is either pinned or off, so the number of cycles is less, and everything sees alot more maintenance and less overall mileage. With no cush you'll stretch chains faster than normal, destroy the spline on the gearbox output shaft (I don't care how you try to deal with it, the sprocket nut will loosen even more regularly with no cush), trash gears in the cluster, and kill the clutch basket springs in addition to trashing the hub/rear sprocket bolts. On 8/30/2017 at 11:52 PM, Dezza said: What about a sprocket carrier with the cush drive in? Many aftermarket wheels use this 'arse-about-face' method, e.g. Dymag, Marchesini, Marvic, Tecnomagnesio. The rubber inserts (available from e.g. Dymag) are set into a sprocket carrier and go over the heads of large Allen bolts screwed into the wheel hub. That's exactly what I was getting at with the above custom sprocket - takes up less space if the rubbers are in the sprocket - or even half in the sprocket half in an outer carrier... Ducati 916 family cush drives are worth looking at - the OEM sprockets look like this: after market "Quick change" sprockets for them have a separate carrier: Quote Link to comment
no class Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 (edited) alot of messing about to get your "bling wheels" road worthy.....and then you will have to deal with how easy it is to dent those fragile rim lips.....no potholes or railroad tracks on a race course ...... but plenty out in the real world.......choose your roads carefully ! Edited September 1, 2017 by no class Quote Link to comment
boilerdude Posted September 1, 2017 Author Share Posted September 1, 2017 (edited) Ok I can clearly see this is personal for you. You want to see all chicanes gone and buried in the ground and forgotten. I am going to try and salvage these. Thanks to EVERYBODY ELSE. for their HELPFUL and POSITIVE input working towards a solution. Edited September 1, 2017 by boilerdude Quote Link to comment
boilerdude Posted September 1, 2017 Author Share Posted September 1, 2017 Suppose there wasn't enough metal. What if I had a large ring newly welded around the outside of the hub so that there was... Btw it's all welded solid. Nothing comes apart. Quote Link to comment
no class Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 2 hours ago, boilerdude said: Ok I can clearly see this is personal for you. You want to see all chicanes gone and buried in the ground and forgotten. I am going to try and salvage these. Thanks to EVERYBODY ELSE. for their HELPFUL and POSITIVE input working towards a solution. Personal ?..... perhaps......but when you almost die because of something such as this .... I tend to spread the word ...... so if I am not HELPFUL....please forgive me . Quote Link to comment
SBK1000 Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 If the wheels are a very light weight I may try to salvage them, otherwise I would try selling them. I have a set of Dymag Magnesium wheels and I was told they would fit my GSXR1000. Well, they did not fit. I am working on making them fit, but it has been months trying to get custom spacers done and getting a new carrier from the UK is as expensive as the wheels cost me. I am knees deep now, so I may as well keep going... Keep posting pictures and asking questions. We'll keep on offering different points of view and opinionated thoughts... Quote Link to comment
no class Posted September 1, 2017 Share Posted September 1, 2017 Compared to stock wheels of the era .... yes they were definately light..... as for today's standards probably slightly heavier than current gsxr wheels . Just a thought here , but have you tried contacting Roland Sands at PM ? He is a bike guy and would most likely take the time to help..... besides , his dad developed those chicanes and probably has the drawings for the cush drive somewhere in archives.... hell.... they might even make one for you if you are willing to pay . Quote Link to comment
boilerdude Posted September 1, 2017 Author Share Posted September 1, 2017 Now that's the no class Ive been looking for. I will keep these things in mind. Quote Link to comment
SBK1000 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 3 hours ago, no class said: Compared to stock wheels of the era .... yes they were definately light..... as for today's standards probably slightly heavier than current gsxr wheels . Just a thought here , but have you tried contacting Roland Sands at PM ? He is a bike guy and would most likely take the time to help..... besides , his dad developed those chicanes and probably has the drawings for the cush drive somewhere in archives.... hell.... they might even make one for you if you are willing to pay . That is why I am working on a conversion kit for late model GSXR wheels... They are light weight, relatively cheap, and commonly available. I think I have everything to fit GSXR 600 / 750 and/or GSXR1000 wheels on stock Slingshot forks / swingarm... Quote Link to comment
suzook12 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 You could ask Robert Dunlop about race weight wheels on public roads.... Or then again.... Quote Link to comment
SBK1000 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, suzook12 said: You could ask Robert Dunlop about race weight wheels on public roads.... Or then again.... You can destroy any wheel on any given pothole... I have seen riders take on speed bumps at speed and they bent their wheels. Same goes with guys doing wheelies and slamming them down. I rode my SV650 with Marchesini wheels for years... And my GSXR1000 is getting Dymag Magnesium wheels... As a rider, you have to scan the road ahead and try to avoid circumstances that could make you crash or destroy your wheels. 1 Quote Link to comment
suzook12 Posted September 2, 2017 Share Posted September 2, 2017 Hmmmm, is that why living in an area with some of the worst roads in the UK have never had to change a wheel in 35 years of riding like a t**t? Come to that none of my mates either, unless they have had crash damaged wheels....... Don't get me wrong, I'm all for lighter wheels and the benefits they provide, but I would never use "race weight" wheels on the road, covering some of the roughest back roads at speeds in excess of 150mph doesn't give much time for scanning. With a long list of road induced damage including blowouts, shocks, forks and subframes snapping, exhausts cracking etc etc, have never managed to break a wheel and with old age and sanity creeping in to my riding these days, am hoping that remains the case. Back in the day, I seem to remember aftermarket wheels coming in race or road weight, why risk it?? Quote Link to comment
boilerdude Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 I didn't know they were that delicate. I'm gonna at least pick a day here (when I have more money) and try to get ahold of roland sands and at least have this conversation over the phone with a professional of some sort. one in the US who can help me without a fortune just in shipping of course... Quote Link to comment
boilerdude Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 (edited) snapping whole forks and shocks just riding down the road... jesus. and subframes. Just from riding so incredibly hard all the time? Or from actually crashing... Edited September 9, 2017 by boilerdude Quote Link to comment
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