GSXR1100 turbo update

[JK1]

  I took a little ride yesterday evening, first proper one after the dyno.  The bike worked very good, just the sudden stop at higher revs under boost. Got a glimpse of the pressure gauge while hanging on the bars, a bit over 1 bar (should go to 1.5). Well thats the problem that still needs to be taken care of.  There must of been just 100 hp before the dyno

But then there was another problem..  After the ride, idle is was not good, so I hooked the computer and started to look for the problem. AFR was going from lean to rich and back, again. (oh did I mention the Innovate gauge went nuts again during the ride..) My  guess there has to be an air leak.  The intake boots are silicone hose, and feel very soft, as they´ve been soaked in gas too long. The shops selling rubber hose close before I get off the work, so I´ll have to order some.

J 

[mr jason]

i know its probably thought of this, but is the air filter big enough? as in is there enough flow?. i only say that cos on a N/A engine if the air filter is to blocked or too small they dont like it.

[JK1]

i know its probably thought of this, but is the air filter big enough? as in is there enough flow?. i only say that cos on a N/A engine if the air filter is to blocked or too small they dont like it.

Yes, we tried it with out the air filter at the dyno...

J
 

[Rossco(Iceman Josros)]

We just need more pics ;)

[JK1]

 

Heres a video of the tuning program while the bike is idling. And it was worse a couple of days ago. How about that differnce between EGT1 and EGT3 (exhaust gas temperature, cylinders 2 and 3)? 

J

Edited August 16, 2015 by JK1

[Gixer1460]

Don't read too much into the different EGT's - they started about 70 apart and stayed roughly 70 apart so unless you can individually recalibrate them that's what they'll read - we always had a spread on kev's FB up to 100 degrees but were looking at trends on a run rather than the actual temps - the one that read the hottest was checked for accuracy and read higher than reality so that was the benchmark. Anyway's at idle you won't learn much - can you data log the ecu? better to short rides with increased revs / load and then analyse and adjust.........................or dyno it?

[JK1]

Dynoing not an option currently.  My work started after the summer vacation, and the dyno is open only on week days. I´ll just try to fix those few problems and find time for new trip to dyno (maybe not until october )

Datalogging with this ecu is a little problem for me.  I´ll have to try the internal datalogging, need to ad a switch for it.  The ecu uses only "old" rs232 connector, and the rs232 to usb connectors won´t work with it, so I´ve been told. I´m using this old laptop, which has  almost dead battery. So I would need to pack that heavy old laptop to a backpack + a few km of  extension cord..  

http://www.tatech.fi/cms/index.php?page=datalogger

 

 

J

 

Edited August 18, 2015 by JK1

[Danm54]

Have a look here

http://www.msextra.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=101&t=27316

 

Theres a few rs232-usb leads that are proven to work.

Can't remember which one I bought now, just that I got it off Amazon!

[steve.w]

[JK1]

The silicone boots look bad..

So I bought a piece of rubber hose... I measured the intake flange (difficult, 46-48mm),  went to the shop (got there early), got me some 45mm id hose... Took the throttle bodies and plenum off, measured the throttle bodies ---> 54mm!!! So the 45mm hose won´t stretch over them   So now I´ll have to get bigger hose..

J

 

[JK1]

I´ve ridden now 1200km with the bike, 700 after dynoing. Its getting a little better, after raplacing the rubber boots, I replaced the spark plug covers.

There still is atleast one strange problem. After the boost has gone up to 1-1.2bar, the engine starts to run rough and the temperature rises. Normal riding temperature is around 89-99 deg/C. When the trouble starts the temperature starts getting higher to 110-120. I have to ride like 100km/h to keep it around 110 and it wont get any lower unless i kill the engine and let it cool. After a couple of hours the bike works good, until I give it more gas again. I was thinking about the spark plugs.. If the engine looses 1 plug under boost , and after cooling it works? The plugs are NGK DR9EIX iridium plugs, are they any good? The dyno operator recommended cooler plugs (10)...  

 

J

[Blower1]

How "quick" is your intake air temp. sensor? and is there intake air temp correction?

If the iat sensor is slow and it warms up when the boost is up, the iat correction leans the mixture.

Change the iat sensor to quicker or disable the iat correction (if there is).

[Gixer1460]

How "quick" is your intake air temp. sensor? and is there intake air temp correction?

If the iat sensor is slow and it warms up when the boost is up, the iat correction leans the mixture.

Change the iat sensor to quicker or disable the iat correction (if there is).

Same train of thought I was thinking! I like the Bosch IAT sensor with a cage around the sensor thermistor - fast reacting unlike the brass encapsulated types which are better for water or oil temps.

Plus increased intake air temps will increase overall engine temps to a greater or lesser degree!

[JK1]

How "quick" is your intake air temp. sensor? and is there intake air temp correction?

If the iat sensor is slow and it warms up when the boost is up, the iat correction leans the mixture.

Change the iat sensor to quicker or disable the iat correction (if there is).

The sensor is like the one  Gixer1460 posted. 

I guess if there is a problem with IAT sensor, it just stops working? I´ll have to check it thou.

I´m going to put new spark plugs in anyway, what would you recommend?

J

 

 

[Arttu]

 The plugs are NGK 

DR9EIX iridium plugs, are they any good? The dyno operator recommended cooler plugs (10)...

 

These should be fine, I think. I have been using 9 temp range Iridiums on my GSX for years without problems. About 1.2 bar maximum boost. If you are aiming for significantly higher boost then colder plugs could make sense. Any ways, your current plugs shouldn't cause this kind problems. Granted they are in good shape of course.

I suggest taking a data log from problem situation and trying to figure out from there what's happening. Usually that's the most efficient way to pinpoint problems.

 

[JK1]

Ok, thanks Arttu. I got the data logging almost set, only the microUSB connector keeps getting loose in my jacket pocket  

J

 

[slingy1157]

This might be a stupid question but what Map sensor is it using? If it's a 2 bar sensor, then this will only actually read to 1 bar of boost then be out of range? But datalog is your friend here for sure to sorting this.

[Screwriverracing]

On my gsx I always used standard ugs, 8s, I tried 9sw as I was told they would work better on a hotter engine, they didn't s oK have always used 8s with no problem.

Cheers SRR 

[1260pete]

I always run stock plugs, and the same on our busa, we run stock cr9e with up to 36psi boost, never killed a plug yet on the strip

[JK1]

Got 20 minutes worth data logging done! Now I need (someone) to analyze the data.. The boots rised to 26psi (1,7bar), but then I remembered that the dyno operator said the ecu has a false/different reading than dyno (map sensor calibration maybe?) The fuel pressure at the same time is 4,35bar (4,35-3=1,35bar = 19,5psi),   sounds about correct. The AFR is rich at lower RPMs, but goes a bit lean when turbo starts to boost (thats why it hesitates a little at WOT) then gets ok  again (if I understand the log correctly)

The problem I told earlier about temperature starting to rise did not occur this time.  

MAP is 3bar.

 

[slingy1157]

What does the MAP read when the engine isn't running? Ie what value is it giving atmospheric ?

[Arttu]

I would start By checking that MAP sensor calibration. If it is off it will screw all tuning. Like Slingy suggested the first thing to check is reading at atmospheric pressure. It should be about 100 kPa +- few kPa. Of course calibration may be still off even if atmospheric reading is correct but it's less likely.

What kind AFR values we are talking about at "rich" and "lean"? Anything between 12-14 should be good enough to run without hesitation. At low throttle you can aim for about 14 or as lean as it runs without hickups. Full throttle before boost should be around 13 and on boost around 12. As rule of thumb. Lean misfires usually start to occur when you go above 15 and rich misfires may start around 11. And if you are way too rich so that the engine misfires heavily then lambda usually shows something around 11-12 due to unburnt air.

[JK1]

Thanks!

I think the calibration is off.. The log says 0 when the bike is not running...

 

J

[JK1]

Bad mistake... There is this aluminum block that attaches MAP to the frame and pneumatic tube from the intakes.... I drilled a new hole in it because I moved it a little, I didn´t check the placement of the hole properly and of course I had drilled it through the air chanel causing a leak!! I noticed this after I took the whole thing apart today...

So I made a new block and now the map works! It started to rain so no test rides or data logging. But the idle is a lot smoother

 

 

 

[JK1]

Argh!!

More bad luck:

Something missing..?

I was testing the bike after fixing the MAP, gave it some throttle while passing a truck....

 

 

Again something I need to fix Atleast the turbo bearing is ok!

 

Edited September 7, 2015 by JK1
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