Turbo plumbing for a simpleton

[69chris]

49 minutes ago, El Gringo said:

There isn't much of one on the 400 carbs either. I was wondering if i could tap the bit that is there out and use a threaded fitting with a hose barb end to give it something a bit more positive to connect to but decided to try lock wire on the normal rubber tees first

curiosity got the better of me so popped out for a look......there is more of a stub than i had noticed lol !!!

deffo something to do once carbs are back off.....although the wording 'just needs drilling through carefully' shits me up ........mr cack handed should be my name         

[clivegto]

I did Colins carb mod on my b12 carbs wasn't that tricky to do & worked a treat.

[69chris]

18 minutes ago, clivegto said:

I did Colins carb mod on my b12 carbs wasn't that tricky to do & worked a treat.

is it just a straight forward drill stubs/add hose etc or is there anything to watch out for ?  ill do a search 

[Maggotbreath]

I'm curious what these rubber T's look like. I'm assuming each carb has a male stub like the outer carbs have and the T's are female/side over? and that's what you've lockwired? do you have a pic of your lockwire job?

[clivegto]

It's was just a brass plug in the end of my ones, drill it out carefully swap T's for pipe & pipe clips. Stubs that are drilled out do look a little short on the out side of the carbs but the pipes on my set up have never moved in over 3000 miles. This mod stopped the splutter between 5k & 6K when coming onto boost.

[El Gringo]

9 hours ago, Maggotbreath said:

I'm curious what these rubber T's look like. I'm assuming each carb has a male stub like the outer carbs have and the T's are female/side over? and that's what you've lockwired? do you have a pic of your lockwire job?

T's on the 400 carbs are identical to the ones above, i managed to get a single loop of lockwire round them, it's pretty tight in there behind the fuel pipes so difficult to get a picture.

Thanks for the pictures @clivegto, that's made it clearer, i think the 400 carbs are a bit different to those. The unused path needs drilling up from inside the float bowl to meet where the stub crosses but it shouldn't be the end of the world

I think i'm going to have to go down this route if the lock wiring doesn't have the desired effect - it's exactly at the 5.5k rpm point where it stutters and then won't pull through

This is where the stub is on the 400 carbs - much lower down

I haven't got a picture of my float bowls so i've nicked this one off the tinterweb but it shows the outer breather path that is un drilled on the 400 carbs

It's not relevant on the 1100 carbs though so i'm not sure why i'm show you lol

Edited February 19, 2019 by El Gringo

[El Gringo]

2 minutes ago, El Gringo said:

T's on the 400 carbs are identical to the ones above, i managed to get a single loop of lockwire round them, it's pretty tight in there behind the fuel pipes so difficult to get a picture.

Thanks for the pictures @clivegto, that's made it clearer, i think the 400 carbs are a bit different to those. The unused path needs drilling up from inside the float bowl to meet where the stub crosses but it shouldn't be the end of the world

I think i'm going to have to go down this route if the lock wiring doesn't have the desired effect - it's exactly at the 5.5k rpm point where it stutters and then won't pull through

This is where the stub is on the 400 carbs - much lower down

I haven't got a picture of my float bowls so i've nicked this one off the tinterweb but it shows the outer breather path that is un drilled on the 400 carbs

It's not relevant on the 1100 carbs though so i'm not sure why i'm showing you lol

 

2 minutes ago, El Gringo said:

Fuck knows whats happened there.........

 

Edited February 19, 2019 by El Gringo

[Maggotbreath]

Looking at the rubber T... without it lockwired at boost I'd expect leakage, may be the source of the stumble. Is the pitote hose lockwired to the T? 

[El Gringo]

14 hours ago, Maggotbreath said:

Looking at the rubber T... without it lockwired at boost I'd expect leakage, may be the source of the stumble. Is the pitote hose lockwired to the T? 

Yep, there's just enough space to get a proper clamp/clip on it.

The more i think about it the more i think this is definitely the cause - fingers crossed it will sort it out.

I'm not entirely sure why i didn't lockwire it first time round, other than I was going to and then forgot 

Should hopefully have a selection of pitot restrictors by the weekend too so will be able to see how much that will affect the running

 

Edited February 20, 2019 by El Gringo

[Maggotbreath]

On ‎11‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 4:27 AM, El Gringo said:

 http://www.turbo-bike.com/Pressurize Carburetor R1.html

Going through your early efforts. If ya done it like this your carb mods are correct. Mind you the description of the pitot is a little different than most. For instance my 1100 , I used two pitot pipes one for each pair of carbs. worked dam good.

[69chris]

On 2/19/2019 at 8:11 AM, clivegto said:

It's was just a brass plug in the end of my ones, drill it out carefully swap T's for pipe & pipe clips. Stubs that are drilled out do look a little short on the out side of the carbs but the pipes on my set up have never moved in over 3000 miles. This mod stopped the splutter between 5k & 6K when coming onto boost.

did mine today,  didnt need to drill plugs tho, just stripped carb bank then used a long thin drift to knock plug out from the tee end.....ended up being a brass ball ....

never having stripped a bank of carbs before i didnt know about the little coil springs in the linkage to each carb..........2 hours later i had found them......about 1 hour later i had managed to get the swines back in place !!!!!

after have read about boost opening the choke circuit i doubled up the spring whilst i had it apart,,, it needs holding open now and snaps back closed when released so hopefully it wont be an issue in the future..

 

On 2/19/2019 at 8:11 AM, clivegto said:

 

 

[clivegto]

Little buggers them springs are indeed. Did experiment with wiring the choke shut, didn't make any difference. My bike does not need choke to start most the time.

[El Gringo]

10 hours ago, Maggotbreath said:

Going through your early efforts. If ya done it like this your carb mods are correct. Mind you the description of the pitot is a little different than most. For instance my 1100 , I used two pitot pipes one for each pair of carbs. worked dam good.

Yep, I'm 99.9% sure i've done the right thing , it's just tweaking it now

I did debate using 2 separate pitots but for sake of ease and space ended up with a single one which then tees to each of the float bowl breather tee pieces (there's a lot of Tees going on here!)

Seeing that Colin's Bandit works well on 1 (and I think Clive's has one too) with a tee suggests it should be okay

I used the rough calculation from the Turbo Do's and Don'ts info for 1/4" pitot per 1" of up pipe diameter - so for my 32mm/1 1/4" up pipe i ended up with a 7mm ID pitot but then given that the 400 carbs are a fair bit smaller perhaps this is too big, which is where the restrictors come in. Hopefully once i know it'll rev through properly I can go back to the dyno and experiment a bit with jetting and pitot diameter

If the float bowl tees are still causing an issue i shall have to go down the route of splitting the carbs and doing the above - i do think it would be a much better solution but i'll try it as is first and see how it performs.

Fingers crossed it works!

[clivegto]

Yes one pipe that then T's to the carbs. Different size pipe can affect jet size.

[El Gringo]

4 minutes ago, clivegto said:

Yes one pipe that then T's to the carbs. Different size pipe can affect jet size.

What bore is the pipe on yours chap? 

Mine is 7mm at the pitot end, then 8mm all the way to the float bowl tees

[clivegto]

Same if memory serves me right.

[El Gringo]

Thanks boss

Hopefully if this weather keeps up i'll be testing sooner rather than later

[El Gringo]

Gahhh once again the devil sneezes in my cornflakes!

I think the pulse coil has gone tits up again, it was a right bastard to start again and won't rev up, exactly like it was 18 months ago!

However this time i've got a pretty good idea that it's the pulse coil - i checked the resistance and it's in spec but...... the one it stripped off my bandit 4 last week was also well in spec and that was fucked - it was sparking once and then not again. 

I think it's starting to break down, so it'll cope at tick over but as the crank spins faster the sensor can't keep up with it

I think i've found one at Electrex World that will work, the dimensions are everso slightly different but it's the correct resistance and looks virtually identical to the standard one.

I only mention this as a new genuine signal generator from Suzuki is a 135 fucking quid!

[Gixer1460]

On 2/26/2019 at 8:57 AM, El Gringo said:

Gahhh once again the devil sneezes in my cornflakes!

I think the pulse coil has gone tits up again, it was a right bastard to start again and won't rev up, exactly like it was 18 months ago!

However this time i've got a pretty good idea that it's the pulse coil - i checked the resistance and it's in spec but...... the one it stripped off my bandit 4 last week was also well in spec and that was fucked - it was sparking once and then not again. 

I think it's starting to break down, so it'll cope at tick over but as the crank spins faster the sensor can't keep up with it

I think i've found one at Electrex World that will work, the dimensions are everso slightly different but it's the correct resistance and looks virtually identical to the standard one.

I only mention this as a new genuine signal generator from Suzuki is a 135 fucking quid!

What are you doing to them - they are probably one of the most reliable bits in the Ignition system - I've never had one fail across multiple bikes over 25 odd years? It's a simple coil of wire and magnetic field that generates a voltage when a ferrous object passes through it - there is virtually nothing to fail ? ? ?

[El Gringo]

12 hours ago, Gixer1460 said:

What are you doing to them - they are probably one of the most reliable bits in the Ignition system - I've never had one fail across multiple bikes over 25 odd years? It's a simple coil of wire and magnetic field that generates a voltage when a ferrous object passes through it - there is virtually nothing to fail ? ? ?

Jesus! Thread from the Dead.

Erm dunno, but it's sorted the shit running every time i've swapped it.

Good news is the Husquvarna one for £17 worked a treat 

Also had one fail on my Bandit 4 and on my NC23 a while ago

TBH it's still on the naughty step, i'm building something else that can't be mentioned on here so i'm aiming to get back on it in the summer

It was running really well apart from the not transitioning to boost still. I've got a set of Bandit 4 carbs to try as an alternative.

I'm also thinking about going back to renthals as just thinking about sitting on it sends my back into spasm

Edited March 9, 2020 by El Gringo

[El Gringo]

Thought i'd better update this - still doesn't work 

Going to make a concerted effort over the winter to make it work

Now got a fancy AFR gauge and fancy boost gauge hooked up to a data logger so hopefully i'll be able to see which direction it's going in

Have now put fresh coils, leads and caps on it, along with a new CDI which should rule out anything electrical

It also starts a hell of a lot better now

 

[Blubber]

Not the update i was praying for 

Ahhhwell, you cant always get a happy end .

[gsx]

Been following this from the start , would be nice to see it finished lol but so would blubbers 

[El Gringo]

I'm trying, I promise! 

I'm just in the process of respacing a set of Blandit6 carbs to give me another option - they've got the more traditional inlet port that goes under the diaphragm which takes the guess work out of the drilled holes on the original carbs

Got to love a sketchy pillar drill, cross vice, hole saw set up

[Maggotbreath]

Cool. Those look alot like the bst34s used on alot of turbo 1100 bikes