Oil Cooled Head Swaps Gsxr onto GSF

[BikeJake]

Hi All,

Ive just acquired a mint Bandit for a last hurrah at tuning bikes, always wanted to do a Suzuki Oil Cooled Motor.

I have put together the cash for a big bore piston set. 

The cams are extremely expensive, especially as the GSXR1100 makes ample power. IMHO. And may do even better with flatslides 

What's the best head to use what's compatible and not... Is there any reading you can point me to? 

For instance what about carb alignment and rubbers inlet angles?... Etc..

I've heard about dot heads but the GSXR1100 heads seem plentiful but mid models with cams are available for a few hundred quid.  I don't mind recon valves cuts etc... 

I expect this has been done to me death, but I feel a bit at the mercy of people flogging expensive stuff that cheap stuff does just as well?

Thanks everyone and hi 

[Joseph]

Surely GSXR 1100 cams and matching ECU will sort you out nicely ?

[george 1100]

Best bang for bucks imo are oversized valves with a ported head.

Run the gsxr ecu with a 4 degree advancer

Stepped headers if you can get them- 38-42-50-60.5mm then the can

40mm flatslides

Yosh cams are expensive but you can always get your cams reground for half the money by a competent shop. I have a set of welded and reground cams in one of my bikes and they work very well

 

[Gixer1460]

Its a Blandit for god's sake - putting a 160hp engine in a chassis built for 100hp is a pointless exercise - unless you desire the company of Paramedics, Doctors and nurses! A GSXR had a far more capable chassis to cope with its std 125+hp. Blandits CAN be made capable but suspender mods and brake upgrades cost money as well and even then, they'll never scratch as well as their sport bike brothers.

If the Blandit is what you want, and with limited money IMO, i'd get a decent SA, some HyperPro progressive fork springs, some decent brakes and then put a DOT head on the Blandit bottom end, with addition of Hayabusa mk1 pistons and maybe some 36mm RS flatslides, you'll end up with a torquey road tool with about 150 odd hp! A bike that can loft the front, on the throttle in 3 gears is a damn sight more fun than having 160hp @ 10,500 rpm that you never use!

[wraith]

Welcome to OSS

As you know/can tell, there meany different ways to go tuning the air cooled lump (take it you're doing a 1200 not the 600 )

As above you can spend lots of money on big house power but you will need to do work on the handling, as standard bandits are a bit soft I'm told.

Engine wise, what do you want top end for track days say or a good all round road bike that you can have fun on?

For instance, I've got a b12 motor in my gsx et, I've put the dot head on that's been ported, a set of gsxr750 cams (different models have different cams, do a search for dot head and gsxr cam on this site) a 4° advancer and a set of gsxr750 38mm carbs and rubbers, a aftermarket (unknown down pipes).

Yes I agree it won't keep up with the lastest gsxr1000 etc but it puts a smile on my face.

If you want big bhp big bore and a turbo and start looking at the 200+ bhp mark 

There are some lads on here the run fast bandit.

Just forget the handling or all that engine tuning will be a waste.

[BikeJake]

9 hours ago, Gixer1460 said:

Its a Blandit for god's sake - putting a 160hp engine in a chassis built for 100hp is a pointless exercise - unless you desire the company of Paramedics, Doctors and nurses! A GSXR had a far more capable chassis to cope with its std 125+hp. Blandits CAN be made capable but suspender mods and brake upgrades cost money as well and even then, they'll never scratch as well as their sport bike brothers.

If the Blandit is what you want, and with limited money IMO, i'd get a decent SA, some HyperPro progressive fork springs, some decent brakes and then put a DOT head on the Blandit bottom end, with addition of Hayabusa mk1 pistons and maybe some 36mm RS flatslides, you'll end up with a torquey road tool with about 150 odd hp! A bike that can loft the front, on the throttle in 3 gears is a damn sight more fun than having 160hp @ 10,500 rpm that you never use!

Your assuming I'm not modding the brakes suspension arm forks etc... Which luckily I am

[BikeJake]

9 hours ago, wraith said:

Welcome to OSS

As you know/can tell, there meany different ways to go tuning the air cooled lump (take it you're doing a 1200 not the 600 )

As above you can spend lots of money on big house power but you will need to do work on the handling, as standard bandits are a bit soft I'm told.

Engine wise, what do you want top end for track days say or a good all round road bike that you can have fun on?

For instance, I've got a b12 motor in my gsx et, I've put the dot head on that's been ported, a set of gsxr750 cams (different models have different cams, do a search for dot head and gsxr cam on this site) a 4° advancer and a set of gsxr750 38mm carbs and rubbers, a aftermarket (unknown down pipes).

Yes I agree it won't keep up with the lastest gsxr1000 etc but it puts a smile on my face.

If you want big bhp big bore and a turbo and start looking at the 200+ bhp mark 

There are some lads on here the run fast bandit.

Just forget the handling or all that engine tuning will be a waste.

I sold a late GSXR1000 to build it. I already have a shock and some forks on the way, as well as a braced arm already purchased. 

My conundrum is the clear compatibility between parts. Say I use a GSXR750 head and Cams, which year is that? I've no idea 

Please don't worry about the rolling chassis 

[BikeJake]

10 hours ago, Gixer1460 said:

Its a Blandit for god's sake - putting a 160hp engine in a chassis built for 100hp is a pointless exercise - unless you desire the company of Paramedics, Doctors and nurses! A GSXR had a far more capable chassis to cope with its std 125+hp. Blandits CAN be made capable but suspender mods and brake upgrades cost money as well and even then, they'll never scratch as well as their sport bike brothers.

If the Blandit is what you want, and with limited money IMO, i'd get a decent SA, some HyperPro progressive fork springs, some decent brakes and then put a DOT head on the Blandit bottom end, with addition of Hayabusa mk1 pistons and maybe some 36mm RS flatslides, you'll end up with a torquey road tool with about 150 odd hp! A bike that can loft the front, on the throttle in 3 gears is a damn sight more fun than having 160hp @ 10,500 rpm that you never use!

I've got an upgraded shock and progressive springs and front fork rebuild already done on the bike by the PO. As well as a braced arm being done shortly. 

What year 750 head is a DOT head and do I need the cams and wheels and Ecu (and extra advance) please? 

I appreciate all the info it's difficult for me to gather all the facts in one point, I'm afraid I am quite dyslexic which is why I work with machines and logic for a living... Thanks! 

[george 1100]

Dot head head has small combustion chambers which, depending on your piston kit, will give you too much of a compression ratio. Stick to the bandit head imo

[fatblokeonbandit]

So  a bandit can’t scratch with sports bikes .?Mmmmmmmm

 

First 2 laps are warm ups no overtaking.. not bad for  25 year old Bandit with a 19 stone pensioner onboard 

 

 

[wraith]

1 hour ago, fatblokeonbandit said:

So  a bandit can’t scratch with sports bikes .?Mmmmmmmm

 

First 2 laps are warm ups no overtaking.. not bad for  25 year old Bandit with a 19 stone pensioner onboard 

 

 

 that's what I like to see 

[wraith]

2 hours ago, BikeJake said:

I've got an upgraded shock and progressive springs and front fork rebuild already done on the bike by the PO. As well as a braced arm being done shortly. 

What year 750 head is a DOT head and do I need the cams and wheels and Ecu (and extra advance) please? 

I appreciate all the info it's difficult for me to gather all the facts in one point, I'm afraid I am quite dyslexic which is why I work with machines and logic for a living... Thanks! 

I'm dyslexic as well and there are some others on here like that as well, so don't worry about that bit (the piss will be taken at some point but don't take to heart it's all in good fun )

To your engine, as above, if you're getting a big bore anyway don't bother with a dot head as they only increase the combustion and the big bore will do that, so use the cash to get the standard b12 ported instead of buying a dot head  

As to gsxr cams, you don't need the gsxr cam chain sprockets, as you will be using your b12 cam chain sprockets, any of the gsxr1100/750 or gsx1100f cams will be better than the b12 ones I can't remember which ones are the best (I think they where the slabside) but someone will be along to say which.

You can buy off the shelf advance wheels ATU from Grumpy 1260 (Eblag or he might be on here?) You can get 3-4 or 5° advance (iv got a 4° but that's just because it came up cheep on Eblag)

You can keep the standard b12 ECU, or spend money on a all singing all dancing thing.

Exhaust, is a must and that will be down to how deep are your pockets or what you like the look of.

Carb, all depends, you can get good results from the standard b12 carbs with Dyno time or get some flat slides, if you want top end 38-40mm if you want road usability 36mm, I like the gsxr750 38mm as they seem to be good at low revs but also give good mid and top end power.

Have a good read through the Francinsten pages on here lots and lots of info. 

You may also want to look at the cable clutch conversion. 

[george 1100]

Also, when you say big bore, how big are we talking?

[fatblokeonbandit]

I’ve got 3 big fat Bandit engines, 2 are 1216 and have been dynoed at about 150 hp, one In The Bandit, one in my teapot, and the one in my moto Martin has High comp standard bore pistons, all 3 have heads done by Mr Upperton, various cams, full race  exhaust systems, 36 mm cv carbs on the 1216’s can be made to work very well, I have 38’s on the MM, that needs setting up properly on a Dino.

the bandit one I put together in 2009 and has been totally reliable, oil changes, tappets and that’s it. Spent most of its life on race tracks as well..

[george 1100]

Sorry, question was for BikeJake but sounds like you have some nice engines there 

[clivegto]

My B12 1216cc turbo with Nitron shock and upgraded k3 forks can put a lot of modern sports bikes to shame. 

[fatblokeonbandit]

Well if its picture time

 

 

 

[BikeJake]

18 hours ago, george 1100 said:

Also, when you say big bore, how big are we talking?

Possibly MTC 1216

[BikeJake]

19 hours ago, wraith said:

I'm dyslexic as well and there are some others on here like that as well, so don't worry about that bit (the piss will be taken at some point but don't take to heart it's all in good fun )

To your engine, as above, if you're getting a big bore anyway don't bother with a dot head as they only increase the combustion and the big bore will do that, so use the cash to get the standard b12 ported instead of buying a dot head  

As to gsxr cams, you don't need the gsxr cam chain sprockets, as you will be using your b12 cam chain sprockets, any of the gsxr1100/750 or gsx1100f cams will be better than the b12 ones I can't remember which ones are the best (I think they where the slabside) but someone will be along to say which.

You can buy off the shelf advance wheels ATU from Grumpy 1260 (Eblag or he might be on here?) You can get 3-4 or 5° advance (iv got a 4° but that's just because it came up cheep on Eblag)

You can keep the standard b12 ECU, or spend money on a all singing all dancing thing.

Exhaust, is a must and that will be down to how deep are your pockets or what you like the look of.

Carb, all depends, you can get good results from the standard b12 carbs with Dyno time or get some flat slides, if you want top end 38-40mm if you want road usability 36mm, I like the gsxr750 38mm as they seem to be good at low revs but also give good mid and top end power.

Have a good read through the Francinsten pages on here lots and lots of info. 

You may also want to look at the cable clutch conversion. 

So any GSXR750 or 1100 oil cooled cams will give enough for 150 or so BHP in a bandit with  high comp big bore standard bottom end 38 RS Flats advance wheel... I'm thinking Hindle 421 Headers.  Its only the higher lift race cam profiles I need be weary of? 

If you could pic a Gsxr year for the cams what would it be? 

I'm guessing the GSXR7 and 11 cams are OK with the MTC pistons as they are designed to work together in engines with identical deck heights etc?... 

Thanks guys.... 

[clivegto]

1 hour ago, BikeJake said:

Possibly MTC 1216

JE 1216cc are a option that's what I have in my Scratchers Twin. @Bowtells me Mr Dunlop did flow bench testing on different oil cooled heads and the best flowing one was B12 

We like pictures  gsxr750j/k cams are the best suzuki ones

Edited June 16, 2022 by clivegto

[fatblokeonbandit]

I’ve got 750 J/ K in one, and reground  kent cams in another, the 3rd one has Grumpy 1260 road and track cams.. 

all as good as one another using my seat of pants Dyno 

[BikeJake]

This is diamond info chaps. 

JE / MTC 1216 

J/K 750 cams

Gas flowed B12 Head. 

38 RS

Hindle 421 Headers. 

Dynotek Ignition 

Dyno sesh... 

Anything else before I start buying this stuff. Lol.. 

I do think the 3rd party cams at 325 plus pandp seems like the biggest waste of dosh if I can find JK ones?... Am I making sense.? 

[fatblokeonbandit]

750 j/k Dot head cams are rarer than rocking horse shite…… 

There is one year of GSXR 1100 with the same cams, they have a B stamped on the right hand end….

im running standard bandit CDI and coils on all 3 Bikes and. get the gearing right will help a lot..

[clivegto]

KC7 cams (Kent Cams Street) are good. That's what's in my N/A 1216 above. Slotted cam wheels are a good idea and dail them in. 

[davecara]

Dont bother with Dyna ignition. Go for Ignitech