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550/650 Swap


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I have decided which way I want to take the 1980 550L cafe racer project.

I purchased a used 650GL motor for $100. Apparently this is a 34 tooth instead of a 30 tooth sprocket, so I purchased the cam shafts from the E series. 

I purchased a new head gasket and base gasket.

I have been reading all that I can on this build, however I do not understand some of the terminology that you are using. Such as the baskets, bucket, and barrels.

It would be nice to switch to a digital gauge, which ones have you guys found to work well? I was thinking one with the tach, fuel gauge, warning lights and maybe find one that has the 6 gears? I am sure someone makes it.

I was looking at degreeing the camshafts to squeeze the most HP out of the build. Is there a more comprehensive build guide than this? https://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?155072-Degreeing-Camshafts-Information-Required/page9 Is it a necessary modification? I have never been this in-depth inside of an engine before, but I am rather excited.

I was planning on using the 550 carbs and camshaft, unless the 650 is better? What size jets would you recommend to start? I want to put on pods and an aftermarket muffler. Everywhere that has the dynojet stage 3 kit has been sold out. If I could find the jet size of that kit, it should be cheaper to go that route. 

Is there anything else that I will be needing for the swap? Will the coils from the 550 work? What about points? Would switching to a better set of points increase any power output? 

I would like to put the aluminum swing arm from the 1100 on the bike to get rid of the center stand and the steel swing arm for weight reduction. Would any swing arm from the 1100 work? Here's what I found: https://www.Eblag.com/itm/82-Suzuki-GS-1100-GS1100-Swing-Arm-53D/133541708007?hash=item1f17b4c0e7:g:ZR8AAOSwO6xeYGlB or does it have to be off of the e model? They appear to be different. https://www.Eblag.com/itm/1982-1983-SUZUKI-GS1100E-Swing-Arm-Fork-Aluminum-Allot-Used-GS-1100-E-OEM-ES-82/293776629702?hash=item4466739fc6:g:PvUAAOSwfNRfgnPi

Edited by 109Countries
Added swing arm question
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Ok, first of all the gs650 barrels some go straight into the gs550 bottom end (crank case) and some you need to open up the top crank case mouths (where the barrels go into. Not sure witch do and don't.

You can use ever the 550 or 650 cams, I think the 550 are a better cam unless you get the gs650 katana cams. You will need to use your gs550 cam sprockets on whichever cams you use.

If you have the gs650 carbs use them manly because the pilot jets will be right, see if anybody dose a Leadar kit ? Or start with a 120 main jet and go from their, this will all depend on which filters and end can (muffler) you use.

Points, in grate power increase in changing them, just a electric one is less messing.

Coils, yes the gs550 will work ok.

Cams degree the cams won't harm and may give you a small gain, but if you want some more hp as the 650 head is off remove the valves port the head (home job just remove the ruth castings in the ports) don't go crazy with this unless you know what your doing, to much can have a negative impact. Lap the valves back in and that will help.

 

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Thank you for the response. I have the cams from the 650E. If the 550 cams are better, I will stick with those. I had read that the sprocket had to be swapped too. Good to know it doesn’t need to be. For the degreeing of the cams for intake and exhaust, I think a lot of the trouble comes from the difference in terminology between the English in the US and the other parts of the world. Do I want the ports to be nice and polished? Could I take the valves to the brass wire wheel and then smooth out any rough spots? Would fixing the timing be worth the pain? From what I had read, you cut off an inch from the cam end to get your gauge in there. I’ve never used the point gauge or the dial indicator. 

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As far as I know, you will need slotted can sprockets the degree the cams, for what it's worth I wouldn't bother myself, not like your running race cams, yes remove the valves and clean them with brass brush, but stay away from matting area and lap in with past.

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20 minutes ago, 109Countries said:

So do I just take a rat tail file to slot the sprockets? 

Lol good luck with that, as they are harden steel 

Have a look on that site for APE slotted cam sprockets, they have a slot instead of a M6 bolt hole.

If it was me, I'd just alter the ATU timing much easier to do with a Strobe light, and you will be able to feel the pick up when riding.

You only see good benefits doing the cams if you're using hi lift cams.

Swing arm, you have two types you have put in your links, one a shaft drive swing arm and the other a gsx1100 (4v) neaver will fit a gs550 frame, (unless your 550 is a shaft drive lol) the gsx1100 swing arm has a different pivot spindle size as in the gs550 is much smaller and you will need to sleeve down

I'm doing a gs550 with a bandit 600 swing arm ( in projects section heading project see how we go) they are lighter than the standard gs550 swing arm and being box steel easy to weld tags on for a twin shocks if you wanted.

 

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I will have to check out your bandit swing arm. I was going for as much weight reduction as possible. Regarding the ATU; do you advance the timing or just follow the stock 650 timing procedure? I purchased the 650e cams because that is what Suzuki_Don had said he did. I now regret that purchase, if it wasn't necessary. Thank you for clarifying that. Any other tidbits I should know before hand? I got an AGM battery that I was planning on mounting on it's side under the seat. Will that be an issue? 

Edited by 109Countries
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I would think that battery would be ok on its side as they are a dry cell 

Been a long time since I've alter my timing and will need to check the best timing but if you do a search or start at topic someone will know off the top of there head ;)

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you are perceptive...but my wraithipedia statement stands...you are a font of knowledge for newbies and once i have my house/bmw/yamaha projects outta the way i trust i can ask advice for my suzuki backburner projects whenever that may be...as 109 counties id finding

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On a street engine, I don't think you would benefit that much from degreeing the cams; the time and money could be spent better elsewhere on the bike.

In the US, in 81 and 82, we had the GS650E, likely the same engine as the 650 katana.  Entire top end should be a bolt-on onto same year GS550.  Top end from shaft drive GS650G will work, but you can't use the cam sprockets.  Best off to use 550 or chain drive 650 cams and sprockets.  Pre-81 GS550 engine lower can be used but will require removing aluminum from the upper case to allow the larger 650 cylinder liners to fit.

Kruzin Image sell 650 overbore pistons increasing displacement to 700 or 740.

By the way, 109, what part of the country are you in?

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1 hour ago, Poldark said:

On a street engine, I don't think you would benefit that much from degreeing the cams; the time and money could be spent better elsewhere on the bike.

In the US, in 81 and 82, we had the GS650E, likely the same engine as the 650 katana.  Entire top end should be a bolt-on onto same year GS550.  Top end from shaft drive GS650G will work, but you can't use the cam sprockets.  Best off to use 550 or chain drive 650 cams and sprockets.  Pre-81 GS550 engine lower can be used but will require removing aluminum from the upper case to allow the larger 650 cylinder liners to fit.

Kruzin Image sell 650 overbore pistons increasing displacement to 700 or 740.

By the way, 109, what part of the country are you in?

Thank you for the reply. I am from the Mid-West, where we enjoy 6 months of winter, 4  months of 2nd winter, and 2 months of spring/summer/fall. I got the 650E cams and sprockets, because I heard that they were the 30t and a more performance based engine. From everything I have read however, keeping the 550 cams is the way to go in terms of overall performance. Can you please confirm? I am confused because I had heard that the 550 has 30t as well for its sprockets? If so, did I waste getting the 650E cams and sprockets? I haven't seen too much on the 700 or the 740. Do you know what the power advantage would be over the 673? 

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51 minutes ago, 109Countries said:

Do you know about how much you'd have to file out of the sprockets? Does anyone have a picture of what the finished product looks like?

Pretty much like this . . . . 

Be wary for just changing cam sprockets as whatever goes on the cams has to match the crank sprocket in a 2-1 ratio otherwise shit gets broken!

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Haven't read much...

 

A digital gauge is NOT!!!! more acurate than a gauge with a dial.. That's all the information I can give you... ;) 

 

Acuracy can mean 2 things, 0.1mm is 0.1mm, or you do a measurement 10 times, and 10 times you get (almost) the same reading.

Edited by Reinhoud
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