Suzuki GS 750 - Won't start and other problems

[Gixer1460]

There are springs inside the two rectangular pieces / pawls, to push them out and engage with the shift the drum & move it around. Like any spring they get tired and get a set - maybe you need new springs?

[bob654]

Perhaps the part 26 is not returning correctly.

 

In the 2nd youtube clip with the other guys bike, he responds to another enquiry with this answer;- 

soapbox94

2 months ago

I had to make just the slightest adjustment to the spring. It was a while ago, but a vice and vice grips did the job. And it was just a slight adjustment (tune) to get it centered. Took me 20 seconds to make the adjustment, and got it on the first try. Even if you get a new spring, it might need to be adjusted to work perfectly. I call it tuning. That spring will change with heat, time, and oil soaking.

REPLY

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by bob654
addition of imfo

[Hariii]

I am pretty sure he means the spring with the number 26, but i have no idea how he adjustet it in 20 seconds. Guess that you can't just remove the shifting shaft. 

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Hariii

[bob654]

He just answered you on youtube too.

[Hariii]

Yeah, i saw that. Really grateful for that!

So i removed the gear lever, polished it, put some grease on it,  increased the tension on the spring, put everything back aaaaand...the problem is still the same. Maybe say what now!? is right and it's the spring inside the two rectangular pieces.  

 

[Swiss Toni]

If you're going to change the pawl springs ... BE VERY CAREFUL!  Bits are tiny, and will get lost. It's easy to work out what's what. The only thing is, be aware the grooves in the pawls are  offset! They will go in the wrong way if you get them mixed up, and  you're not aware of this! As ever ... RTFM!!!

Edited June 6, 2020 by Swiss Toni

[Hariii]

Thanks Toni, i will of course read the manual before doing that and be very careful about the springs  Still not sure if i should seek help and let a more experienced guy do the job. But then again, i have no way to transport the bike and driving is not an option at the moment...

[Gixer1460]

Try and do one side at a time - put rag over the shift drum to catch anything / keep anything out of the crankcase / sump (cos you just know that's where they are going to end up - sod's law and all that!) Not difficult job - just take time and reference the manual!

[Hariii]

Thank you so much for your help and guidance guys. I somehow have the feeling that it is still the spring on the shift lever. Instead of trying to increase the tension of spring, i tried the opposite. After watching the video multiple times i noticed that the spring wouldn't allow the lever to get into back into the right position. It wasn't going down all the way, if you know what i mean. Now, it's a little bit better but far from beeing right. So i will order new springs, one for the lever and two small ones in advance in case this does not help. 

Also i will try to officially register the bike in order to take her to a mechanic if nothing works. In any case, i will keep you informed

 

Cheers and have a nice day

[Swiss Toni]

The return spring on the gearchange shaft is most likely fatigued. As new, the prongs that fit over the post in the crankcases are touching each other. Some are even slightly crossed! This gives you the 'spring back' capacity to select the next gear. A common problem! Lots of engines have suffered from this, mainly unattended, because the rider being aware of it, now automatically 'touches' the lever in the opposite direction to snick the selector drum to the next position! I think before risking delving into the selector drum, changing the spring on the g/change shaft will solve your problem! To prove this theory, remove the spring, force the two prongs on the springs together, crossing each other, and then as far as they'll go. Re-fit the spring as per manual. This is the 'slight adjustment' your  farcebook pal is on about! If this solves your problem, get on the 'phone 'tuit suite' to Robinsons, sweet talk Michelle for your 10% OSS discount, and order a new one. Seemples! 

Edited June 7, 2020 by Swiss Toni

[Hariii]

Just to make sure,you mean this spring?

Tried to adjust the spring as much as possible,but it did not solve the problem. 

 

[Swiss Toni]

Yes!  Leave the spring on the quadrant. Bend the two ends of the prongs slightly towards each other. Fit and try it. If still the same, bend a little more. Should now be ok. But, you still need a new spring! Get one now, or you'll end up going through the same ball ache a few weeks down the line! 

Edited June 7, 2020 by Swiss Toni

[Hariii]

I did all that but unfortunatlely the problem remains the same. So i am going to order the springs (the big one and the small ones). First try the big one and test if it gets better and if not, i will ask someone for help. Should be able to register the bike, even though the shifting is little bit tricky and then i can drive to someone, with more experience. 

[Captain Chaos]

maybe the shift arm is slightly bent and thus not rotating freely in the cases? Have you tried it without the spring?

[Hariii]

I thought about that too, cause the left alternator cover showes clear scars of a little slip and moving it, when its fully installed, was quite hard. But with the naked eye everything looks normal. A more experienced ex - mechanic dropped by yesterday and inspected it as well. He couldn't notize any bent either. 

I haven't tried it without the spring, yet. Should i? What whould i expect when doing it? 

 

[Captain Chaos]

without the spring you will notice immediately if it has some resistance when turning.

[Captain Chaos]

and one more thing, newer GSX-R's (SRAD notably) are famous for gearshift troubles. Which can all be traced back to the gearshift lever and linkage which are never cleaned and lubricated by the owners.

Is your lever mounted straight on the gearshift shaft? If not, is the linkage clean and free moving?

[Swiss Toni]

Pull the shaft out again, and roll it on a flat surface, glass/bench-top ect. That'll prove straightness (or not). Taking the spring off will do nothing, apart from leaving the shift drum in the position you've just placed it. The lever not returning to put the selector in place for the next gear change.  If the shaft isn't bent, try a new shaft spring first. If that doesn't cure it, then think about changing the pawl springs. It's not uber difficult, just fucking awkward! Have all your new parts to hand. Remove the pawl mechanism, holding the two pawls against spring pressure. Keep one depressed, and let go of the other one ... carefully! It will probably drop out on its own. Underneath the pawl is a hole for the spring, and a small hollow plunger, which fits over the spring. These are tiny! Change spring, and replace the plunger over it. Now, this is where it gets awkward! Push assembly back into its hole, holding the plunger in position with your thumb while you replace the pawl over it, remembering what I told you about its offset groove. If you can keep the other one in position as you do this, it will only go back one way. Rounded end to the 'hinge' position. If you drop it, and it all falls apart, thats  when you've got to take notice of which pawl goes where, because you now have two pawls loose on the bench! Daunting, but we all had to learn! Hold it down as you repeat the process with the other one. When finished, still holding both pawls down, insert the unit back into the shift drum, as per the manual. Another pair of hands might be helpful in your case, but not essential. It is fiddly, but not impossible with a bit of patience! Good luck!

As an afterthought, if you're really not comfortable doing it yourself, stick it in a Jiffy bag with new springs, and I'll do it for you! 

Edited June 7, 2020 by Swiss Toni

[Captain Chaos]

5 hours ago, Swiss Toni said:

Taking the spring off will do nothing,

I mean just insert the shaft in the hole and try if it turns, without engaging gears etc. To see if it turns without resistance. 

[Hariii]

7 hours ago, Swiss Toni said:

Pull the shaft out again, and roll it on a flat surface, glass/bench-top ect. That'll prove straightness (or not). Taking the spring off will do nothing, apart from leaving the shift drum in the position you've just placed it. The lever not returning to put the selector in place for the next gear change.  If the shaft isn't bent, try a new shaft spring first. If that doesn't cure it, then think about changing the pawl springs. It's not uber difficult, just fucking awkward! Have all your new parts to hand. Remove the pawl mechanism, holding the two pawls against spring pressure. Keep one depressed, and let go of the other one ... carefully! It will probably drop out on its own. Underneath the pawl is a hole for the spring, and a small hollow plunger, which fits over the spring. These are tiny! Change spring, and replace the plunger over it. Now, this is where it gets awkward! Push assembly back into its hole, holding the plunger in position with your thumb while you replace the pawl over it, remembering what I told you about its offset groove. If you can keep the other one in position as you do this, it will only go back one way. Rounded end to the 'hinge' position. If you drop it, and it all falls apart, thats  when you've got to take notice of which pawl goes where, because you now have two pawls loose on the bench! Daunting, but we all had to learn! Hold it down as you repeat the process with the other one. When finished, still holding both pawls down, insert the unit back into the shift drum, as per the manual. Another pair of hands might be helpful in your case, but not essential. It is fiddly, but not impossible with a bit of patience! Good luck!

As an afterthought, if you're really not comfortable doing it yourself, stick it in a Jiffy bag with new springs, and I'll do it for you! 

Thank you so much for this long explanation. Sounds a little bit tricky too be honest.  Although i don't mind a good challenge, i'm really not sure if i should try that. I guess sometimes it's better to seek help and to know ones limits. And thank you for the kind offer, i will definitly think about it!
 

2 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

I mean just insert the shaft in the hole and try if it turns, without engaging gears etc. To see if it turns without resistance. 

Oh, i tried that already. The shaft, when fully inserted, did turn way too hard. So i removed the rust film, polished the shaft and put some grease on it. It is now better,although there is still a little bit resistance i guess. Hard to tell if this is normal or not, cause i have nothing to compare it to. 

[Gixer1460]

A plain shaft in a plain bored hole should have NO resistance to rotation unless connected to something or friction from grease - otherwise suspect a bent shaft or distorted hole! Common cause of bent shift shafts - crashes! If the lever got bent enough to need straightening or replacement, a lot of that force also went into the shift shaft!

[Captain Chaos]

2 hours ago, Hariii said:t!
 

Oh, i tried that already. The shaft, when fully inserted, did turn way too hard. So i removed the rust film, polished the shaft and put some grease on it. It is now better,although there is still a little bit resistance i guess. Hard to tell if this is normal or not, cause i have nothing to compare it to. 

As 1460 said, it should turn very easy, with no resistance. This could be your problem. 

[Swiss Toni]

8 hours ago, Captain Chaos said:

I mean just insert the shaft in the hole and try if it turns, without engaging gears etc. To see if it turns without resistance. 

Got ya! @HariiiSounds like the shaft is definitely bent! Try to get a replacement, as you'll never be able to get it truly straight. As I said earlier, if you don't want to try changing the pawl springs, PM me and I'll give you my address, although I think a new shaft will cure your problems ... hopefully! 

Edited June 8, 2020 by Swiss Toni

[Hariii]

I am not sure. I mean, there is certainly something wrong, but i don't know if it is the shaft. To me, it looks straight, even after putting it on a even surface. 

 

Maybe this video will help:

https://youtu.be/E4dOANhPfeM

As you can see, the shaft moves freely until a certain point. When putting it fully in, it moves really hard and i guess that this is the issue..

[Swiss Toni]

As they say, 'A picture tells a thousand words'! Video's even better! Either the shaft's bent, or corroded at its contact points with the cases or, the hole in the casing is deformed, as 1460 says. Have you tried rolling it on your flat surface? Looking at your video, the shaft is definately the problem!