swirl pot with integrated pump

[no class]

just a thought here …….since my project build will have a "in-tank" pump  as I would like to keep the pump temps down.......and since space on the Kat tank is limited for some sort of additional reservoir to keep the pump from fuel starvation  during lower fuel level  conditions…..I was thinking of putting a secondary reservoir or swirl pot in the free space behind the motor . this reservoir would house the fuel pump  and be gravity fed with a -8 or -10 line from the main tank . some of my concerns are venting and return line from FPR back into the secondary tank or main tank . I am probably missing something here so any feedback would be great .

Edited February 23, 2019 by no class

[Captain Chaos]

4 hours ago, no class said:

 some of my concerns are venting and return line from FPR back into the secondary tank or main tank . I am probably missing something here so any feedback would be great 

what if the secondary tank is already full and the FPR is trying to return fuel into it? Fuel return should be as unrestricted as possible. Better to connect it to the main tank IMO.

[no class]

Makes perfect sense CC......as far as venting goes  , I assume the tank vent is enough for gravity to function properly …..will need to check the flow with the line connected  .

[Gixer1460]

Not trying to muddy the waters but a swirl pot is usually fed by separate low pressure pump and has pot over flow back to main tank. The fuel rail return is usually back to the pot. The reasoning is the continual circulation of fresh cool fuel. Whilst this system is more used in cars having tanks susceptible to surge from cornering it could be applied to a bike. One thing - a vent from the pot to the main tank would help as you can't flow liquid into a closed container (rapidly) if the air can't get out!

[no class]

On 2/24/2019 at 3:59 AM, Gixer1460 said:

Not trying to muddy the waters but a swirl pot is usually fed by separate low pressure pump and has pot over flow back to main tank. The fuel rail return is usually back to the pot. The reasoning is the continual circulation of fresh cool fuel. Whilst this system is more used in cars having tanks susceptible to surge from cornering it could be applied to a bike. One thing - a vent from the pot to the main tank would help as you can't flow liquid into a closed container (rapidly) if the air can't get out!

No muddy waters here......all input is good input .appreciate it .  was hoping to use gravity instead of a lift pump as the main tank is higher than the pot which is 0 psi .....now....venting may be an issue as the larger tank being above (when almost full of petrol) will cause fuel to fill the vent as well ?

[Gixer1460]

Vent should always go to an airspace or it doesn't function as a vent! Using a -8 or -10 main to pot via gravity is fine just add the vent - 6mm is plenty. Can vent anywhere as long as above main tank.

[NotStock]

On 2/24/2019 at 12:59 AM, Gixer1460 said:

Not trying to muddy the waters but a swirl pot is usually fed by separate low pressure pump and has pot over flow back to main tank. The fuel rail return is usually back to the pot. The reasoning is the continual circulation of fresh cool fuel. Whilst this system is more used in cars having tanks susceptible to surge from cornering it could be applied to a bike. One thing - a vent from the pot to the main tank would help as you can't flow liquid into a closed container (rapidly) if the air can't get out!

Wouldn't returning to the main tank make more sense? Send the hot fuel that has been through the pump and FPR back to the main tank and let the pot be replenished with the lower temp fuel from the main tank? The main tank could act as a bit of a radiator and heat sink. I am completely guessing, no experience here, but isn't the idea to keep as much heat away from the pump as possible?

[Gixer1460]

As I said - mainly used on cars where the long lines allow fuel cooling. Putting a return into the top of the bike tank is a bit more involved!

[Cheeky4648]

On 2/23/2019 at 1:51 PM, no class said:

just a thought here …….since my project build will have a "in-tank" pump  as I would like to keep the pump temps down.......and since space on the Kat tank is limited for some sort of additional reservoir to keep the pump from fuel starvation  during lower fuel level  conditions…..I was thinking of putting a secondary reservoir or swirl pot in the free space behind the motor . this reservoir would house the fuel pump  and be gravity fed with a -8 or -10 line from the main tank . some of my concerns are venting and return line from FPR back into the secondary tank or main tank . I am probably missing something here so any feedback would be great .

Have you a link or part number for the fuel pump by any chance @no class

[no class]

well here is the most compact unit I could find , simple design and will fit the space I have on my project …...pump is a Bosch 044 . Item info states the tank is 0 psi so gravity feed from the main tank should be fine .

[Gixer1460]

I'm struggling here! A 044 is not a small pump (and its amp draw may give your electrics concerns!) and it seems to be fitted within a cylinder with nicely machined ends that all achieve nothing except make it bigger - at a guess, its nearly 100mm dia and 250+mm long? A 044 pump will usually support 500hp - do you need that much?

[no class]

the main reason for using the pot is the space available inside the Katana fuel tank ….The oem gsxr1000 pump will not be enough to support the 300HP goal that I set for this build . I do not like the in-line external pumps as they are noisy and get bloody hot …...keeping the pump submerged thus adding some cooling  and noise reduction is what I would prefer and for me is non negotiable . Do I need a 500+ hp pump ?  no ….definitely not …..but looking for a universal in-tank pump that will have the lowest amp draw and support the 300HP goal comes down to the Walbro gss340/341/342 …..all supporting 500HP …...the Bosch looks to be a larger pump in size as compared to the others I have seen and will draw slightly more amps than the Walbro . The tank that I posted is basically what I am after as a self contained unit but not necessarily using the 044 …...I can make pretty much anything to fit any pump , I do have plenty of room for it .  I ran a external fuel pump (vortex) and a high pressure water / meth pump on a gsxr electrical system along with 2 thermal fans for the oil coolers not to mention other electrical add ons …..used the biggest battery from odyssey that fit inside the swingarm …...I never checked the total current draw from that set-up but I can't say I experienced any ellectical issues . 

 

and yes you are correct in the size …..tank will hold 1 litre and is 4" diameter  x 8.500" long .

Edited April 14, 2019 by no class

[vizman]

On my turbo chop I had two petrol tanks, one under the seat and a fire extinguisher that was side mounted both linked together via two hoses, fuel pump sucked out of the fire extinguisher and the return pipe from the reg went back into the one under the seat....

[vizman]

....not the answers you’re looking for, but if any info I have on that set up sheds any light just holla....

 

cool and quiet.......fanny.