Oilyspanner
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Posts posted by Oilyspanner
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Nick at Suzuki Performance Spares got back to me about Wossner pistons' weight, he has a batch coming in on Weds and will weigh them for me - which is good of him, he could've just said' it doesn't say the weight on the spec sheet'. I'll post the weight on here when I get the e-mail, it'll be well worth considering a lighter big bore piston if you use high revs a lot. - a good forged piston is always going to be strong, so a lighter forged piston will be better for pick-up, reducing stress on rods, g.pin, bearings and crank - If the Wossner pistons are near std weight they must be worth trying - I'll use a set in the next engine I work on if they are, would be smoother at cruise speeds too.... probably find out they weigh the same as all the rest
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I think the rev limiter was upped on the 1127R models, the 1052R didn't rev as high (as stock either model didn't rev out) - the pistons of the 1052 and 1127 weigh the same, so extra force was added to 1127 cranks with the added revs. Took my big bore to 10,700 by accident, it was accelerating well in 3rd and I missed the change-up light, over revving would be a problem on track. The Wiseco pistons I used were very close in weight as a set at least, just too heavy, JE pistons are 2g lighter from their figures. Balancing will help, but dropping piston assembly weight would be a even more helpful for high revs and then get it all balanced. Haven't got a clue whose good though.
I've seen Wossner pistons that have a lighter design, I'm going to ask about their weight - they have tapered gudgeon pins too, which will drop weight. Wossner are well known in the car world, not so much with bikes though - anyone tried them ?
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This thread made me think - which is always dangerous...
I made a comment on J1B's thread once, that I was surprised that forged big bore pistons were as heavy as they are, including gudgeon pin, 30/31 g heavier - that's 10 % heavier than standard ! - forces from acceleration/deceleration increase to the square, so the extra force on the crank/bearings is double that of standard (brain's not as good as it was, but I think that's right) - it's surprising there aren't more problems, there must be many thousands of big bore oilers out there and not many problems. The standard tacho lies it's cock off at high revs though, that probably makes people change up earlier. If my F = MA calculation is correct, the big bore piston extra force at the std rev limiter (true 10800), is like setting a std pistoned 1127/1157 limit to just over 11,300 revs - something like 12,800 on a standard tacho !!
I've got an amber change up light at true 10,200 and a red one at 10,500, as said the power is dropping by then anyway. Would like to drop the piston assembly to standard weight though, then use a true 11,000 as a limit and all should safe - Suzuki built a decent safety margin in it seems.
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I expect B12 plug caps are the same as 1100K/L/M/N ones - my N ones were 82mm(ish) from tip of rubber plug surround, to upper rubber shroud that stops rubbish falling down the plug well. That top rubber shroud would probably need to be swapped for the oil cooled one anyway, this stops vibration pulling the coil off the plug, it needs to be snug.
My primary circuit of the stick coils in series measured within the Slingshots' tolerance - it was quite a long time ago, but 2.6/2.7 ohms if I remember correctly - the standard coils have quite a wide window 2.4 - 3.2 tolerance, so the ignitor has never played up - B12 coils are much the same as Slingshot ones I think.
Only two things have really caused a problem since my conversion, the clip that locates on the threaded spark plug tip on one coil was weak and vibrated loose - I replaced it. The other problem was that a digital dash I had needed a wire feed from the coil signal to work the displayed revs, the stick coils' spark was affected at lower revs - I bought a different dash that could use the normal feed from the ignitor and the motor was lovely and crisp again. I love the stick coils, it declutters the area above the engine (makes servicing easier) and it saved weight - I was putting my bike on a weight loss program at the time....but the best thing is that it just works so well.
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I took it you had the axle/wheel too Sam ? The axle length , wheel and spacers would dictate the yoke width - or the yoke width would do the reverse I suppose !
Like Swiss, I'm not sure what you mean about 3mm difference.. are you thinking of using the std wheel/discs ?
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As long as the forks are the same length (axle centre to fork cap), or longer - modern sports bike forks/brakes are a great move. The fork centres may be different(more modern bikes don't have wheel driven speedo drive), so you might need to change the yokes, or swap stems.
The 750L/M forks are pretty decent when serviced and the Nissin calipers are pretty decent too with decent pads (as long as the pistons are free moving) - for not very much money the std front end can work very nicely - thought I'd add this, it depends on your pockets and what you want of your bike - you'll need a good shock to work well with a good front to get the best out of it, front and rear have to work well together if you want good handling.
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I think this has gone off topic ! A dot head will work well, or a skimmed 1157 head will work well. The dot head on a B12 engine works nicely as has been said - quite a few dot heads have a crack/cracks in the inlet/exhaust divider, this is very rare in 1052/1127/1157 heads, it's thicker on the big bikes heads. If you bump up the comp. a touch on the 1157 head it'll give similar results to a dot head - the dot head has slightly raised inlet floor too, it helps open up the circumference of the inlet valve a touch. If you skim the head the check the piston to valve clearance and squish clearances, there's more scope on the big engine's head - as has been said, be very careful if you're thinking about skimming the dot head.
I recognise that head with the revised inlet tracts and exhaust spigots, it had larger valves and a shit load of port work done on it the port floor was epoxied too - it was a drag bike's head - not much in common with a standard head. . . .
You don't want sharp edges in the chamber or on piston crown, I think Dunc meant not to have a big radius on the edge of the squish area, just smooth the edge. Some valve de-shrouding reaps rewards too, it makes the most of the valve's size.
I'm only a keen amateur who wishes he had some of the machining and welding skills of some of the other members on here !
Keep us up to date though
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Welcome to the site Sam.
36mm carbs are very good, flow well, easy to set-up and work well with dual pod filters - plus they're smaller than the 40mm carbs, so will fit in the under tank space more easily. Unless you're having the head flowed etc you'll not be stunting the top-end much at all, but you will have stronger power through the normal rev range - a couple of hp at the very top isn't much use on the road, more power and torque everywhere else is far more useful.
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One thing to be careful of Dezza -
Although it's a few years back when I converted my bike, from what I remember the earlier K series engine 600/750/1000 all had very similar stick coils (1000 had that base engine unit to K8, 600/750 to K5) - the newer engines I believe had lower resistance coils, which wouldn't be suitable. The GSR600 used the same rated coils as the earlier K's too - as did the 1st gen Hayabusa (don't know about the gen 2). I certainly remember that the 1000K9 - onwards coils were differently rated.
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Any plans for the new addition ?
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Never found out for sure if it was a 748/749/1052 or 1127 engine, what state the engine's in etc ??? - thought the spacer idea was a good one, or take some timing out of it, add some octane booster …… maybe the engine had hi-comp pistons in it and had got 'nibbled' - hard to help with 1/4 the info though
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The feed comes from the oil line on the upper case, behind the cylinder block/ barrel assembly - this single line branches into a dual line to the back of the cam cover. A head cooler takes the oil from the upper case feed to an additional cooler and then a line with a dual branch returns the oil to the rear of the cam cover - the oil will be lower in temperature when it circulates around the top of the head, so will keep the head temperature down.
This diagram shows it really well - it's the one fitted to the GSXR750RK
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GSXR1100 m/n and bandit 1200 should be the same, both have the larger output shaft bearing too.
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Are you sure it's starved of fuel ? - check the fuel is being released by removing tank, attach a pipe to vac and suck - petrol should pour out of the 2 outlets - probably best you sit the tank over a big bowl, or fit pipe to the outlets and run them into a container...
The plugs will tell you if the motor is cutting out due to starvation or by too much fuel. I've often thought I've had a lean condition and it's turned out to be rich, the plugs have told me that the motor is running rich - sooty ceramic.
Obviously, check the other things mentioned.
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Many bits have been mentioned already.
You didn't mention it, but this is just a 750 heads question ? The USA was the only country to get o/c GSXR750s in 1992, it was the same as the 1991 M anyway - they were both shim adjusted valve heads, nothing but colour schemes changed.
You can only fit long stroke 750 heads to long stroke bottom ends (okay with a huge amount of work anything is possible) - the 1990 R 750L was liked because it was easier/safer to fit lumpy, race cams to it compared with the shim heads and had the same sized valves. The shim heads did have slightly better inlet ports though, slightly raised floor and the divider were different. You can get any head to work much better with some flowing. It is possible to fit the valve train from 750L to replace the 750M (N)'s - the shim on top of valve retainer had the potential to lose a shim during valve float, more likely in a race motor.
The short stroke heads have larger valves than the long stroke 750's, same size as 1100's - head volume not smaller than other 750's, but smaller than 1100's, which is why they are often fitted to 1100/1200s (they give higher compression).
The short stroke 750 engines R and GSX-F models all have similar heads/valve sizes/volumes etc and have the 'dot' cast on them. These heads can be fitted to the 1100/1200 engines but not long stroke 750's, the casting is different, cam chain tunnel is different. Like Wraith I've not looked at the R 750 J/K head compared with a GSX-F dot head, but some say the inlet port floor isn't as raised on the F ?... maybe someone who has checked can add to the thread. The cams are the big difference between the dot head R's and F's.
There are head casting details on the underside of the intake runners - eg my 1100N has 41C amongst the markings, this tells you it's for a 41C model - GSXR1127 M/N. Unfortunately I don't know the 750 markings - anyone ?
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Good to see all the bits compared together, never had them all together. The 80mm bore with the 58mm stroke of the 1052 bottom end will give a displacement of 1166cc.
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Received mine last might, really well made, nicely finished off - I'll swap the spacers over later, measuring the needle protrusion from bottom of slide and replicating it with my shiny new ones
cheers Jon, makes my previous spacers look very Heath Robinson !
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Well it is Christmas soon Clive, a few well chosen hints should do the trick …. making the garage stink of petrol, leaving the laptop on the Pingel dual outlet tap page, saying loudly 'I must get a new fuel tap for the big Suzuki and all will be good' ! Ho Ho Ho....
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I have to admit I was thinking of getting a Pingle if I had delivery problems - damn expensive for what they are - much cheaper than rebuilding the engine though ! Only took 20 minutes to test, so I could test periodically, just for peace of mind - shame there aren't many options.
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I was going to post a question about the output per minute of the standard fuel tap - but I decided I was being lazy ! Mikuni jets are rated in ml/cc per minute, so my jet sizes mean I would need a minimum of 750 ml per minute to feed the carbs at WOT. I took the tank off, fitted some tubing to the fuel outlets and vacuum link. I timed 15 seconds of flow into a measuring jug (not so easy when you're sucking on the vacuum pipe) - the jug had just over 300 ml in the 15 seconds, so over 1200 ml in a minute.
So a healthy Slingshot dual outlet tap can supply more than 50 % over and above my carb requirements at maximum throttle/revs. I was worried that the tap maybe couldn't flow enough, so for now at least the standard tap stays - the membrane and mechanism of the standard tap can be problematic with time and crappy fuel residue, but all seems good. I'm glad I checked though, in the last year or so I've spent a lot of time and money on the engine, I didn't want fuel starvation to wipe out the fruits of my labours, just because I didn't check fuel flow. Just a shame the weather's gone tits up until next year
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Seem to remember the std m/c being 1/2 inch, which is about 13mm. 16mm is plenty big enough, you might find that you don't need to move the lever very far to disengage the clutch, so would bite pretty late too. I fitted a TL1000R m/c when I altered my controls - that was marked the same as the std m/c You're right about the increased pressure required for a larger bore m/c, I swapped between a 17mm and 19mm brake m/c several times when I changed the front-end. The 17mm m/c was lighter in action, but there was more lever movement, but it was powerful - the 19mm needed less lever movement, was firmer at the lever and wasn't really any more powerful. The smaller m/c also gave more feel, because of the greater movement needed I guess … bigger isn't always best with master cylinders … plus the clutch doesn't need as much fluid movement as two brake calipers.
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Hi - the two types of 750 engine have different sized big ends and small ends, so you can't swap cranks/rods/pistons. The short stroke heads fits 1052/1127/1157 block, but cam chain tunnel is wrong for the long stroke 750. Perhaps with machining, specially made rods etc you can put the parts together, but as standard they won't match up. Maybe someone has done the alterations and will see your post, I haven't heard anything though - good luck though.
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Just wondering, what project you got on the go Jon ? I don't think this is for your 1246 ?
I love my Nitron shock, real quality damping, best quality shock for the money - Had looked at a GSXR750 K6-L0 shock, which fits, working stroke is about the same and has high /low speed comp. damping (my forks have this and it works well)- but to get the same level of fade free damping I'd need to spend a wedge on a re-working of valving, plus get a spring to suit. I bought a Faulkner's spring for £34.99 delivered and Nitron works superbly again (bike's lost 100lb and spring too stiff, the reason I looked around for options)- still want their top of the range unit though.... next year.
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Interesting points about the location, does pay to check - I did measure the clearance, the sensor sits 6mm+ above the point where the shock would be bottomed out. Akrapovic obviously do their homework, the rear pipe work is just out of harms way at full compression, the down pipes have touched down though... but I have mucked around with stance. If I had to go up over a high kerb I'd have to go careful - I live out in the sticks, so no speed bumps and the fairing/exhaust have to ground down 5mm before reaching the sensor - have touched the lower fairing down when in a corner being silly, but the centre point of sump would've been well out of the way.
7/12 carbs issues
in Oil Cooled
Posted
Your engine is running lean, covering the filters and it runs better proves this. As Duncan says, pilot system and air passageways have to be very clean. Pilot system affects tick-over and gentle cruising, the needle controls the bulk of normal riding - as you've fitted pods, try lifting the needles to make that area richer - if you're on middle clip, go to the bottom position and try that, it should be closer. The main jet only really comes into play at higher revs and with large throttle openings.
It's hard to give good advice from afar, as you have to assume that everything else is working as it should - good spark etc. Hopefully the needle adjustment will help and allow you to run the bike on the dyno