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GSX 1100 EFE wheel swap


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1 hour ago, Swarf said:

Unless, devils advocate, one of the old components is slightly bent or twisted or otherwise out of shape.....just throwing it out there. 

from the stuff i've done - I would say more likely than not - you want a perfectly aligning frame etc.. - then go pay to get one built - leads to another point - where to measure ref: wheel to wheel - top / bottom / axles ?? - for me its as close as you can get to the bottom ( tyre contact) whilst keeping a reasonable spacing between the wheel front and back side of the rim - its fair to assume that the steering head is not going to be 100% perpendicular to the swing arm axle ( plus as previous said - the wheel spindle parallel to the swing-arm axle ) so you can compensate a bit by measuring low - at the end of the day its tyre contact to match tyre contact - its an opportunity for a bit of fine tuning - blue printing for free - will you notice though ? - with a big heavy cruzer broozer on a sunday cruze = nope, with a fine handling, relatively light bike ridden as it should be - absolutely = horses for courses

 

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2 hours ago, nlovien said:

from the stuff i've done - I would say more likely than not - you want a perfectly aligning frame etc.. - then go pay to get one built - leads to another point - where to measure ref: wheel to wheel - top / bottom / axles ?? - for me its as close as you can get to the bottom ( tyre contact) whilst keeping a reasonable spacing between the wheel front and back side of the rim - its fair to assume that the steering head is not going to be 100% perpendicular to the swing arm axle ( plus as previous said - the wheel spindle parallel to the swing-arm axle ) so you can compensate a bit by measuring low - at the end of the day its tyre contact to match tyre contact - its an opportunity for a bit of fine tuning - blue printing for free - will you notice though ? - with a big heavy cruzer broozer on a sunday cruze = nope, with a fine handling, relatively light bike ridden as it should be - absolutely = horses for courses

 

Agreed, I'd aim for alignment as close to the contact patch as possible. Any welded assembly moves and 'tweaks', comes down to the maker if it's within tolerances. 

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OK got to tell a story, over the last few nights I've been trying to do all this on a project bike and I've been close to loosin it argh!!! - just as well I smoke cause if I didn't I would by now

I couldn't get the wheels to line up - or I could via my parrallel rods between wheels but the good old eye said no - what the fook was wrong - 10min ago I got it - going to enjoy a nice dram tonight - bollocks going to enjoy a bit of home grown as well :banana: so what was it ??

checked the wheels were vertical via a plumb line = tick

checked the rods were equally spaced along the length = tick

swing arm pivot to wheel axle previously checked to confirm arm not bent = tick

got in touch with owners of same type of bike to confirm where the std wheel sits ref: swing arm sides = tick

checked the chain adjuster marks on the swingarm ref: swingarm pivot = tick

what the fook is left               --------------------------------- ok its got spondon drag extenders on the swing arm, these have sliding bush's  - I had been "assuming" the punch mark for wheel alignment was at the axle centre - bollocks, made a measurement to another bit and hayho one punch mark was about 1.5mm off the axle centreline 

 ok so the rear wheel was not parallel to the front when using the adjuster marks - so I was adjusting the front to match the parallel rods and in doing this I had to move the rear aprox 15mm over to get the front to centre on the rods

so I set the rear wheel to the swingarm pivot bolt - not the adjusters and bingo - i'm within a mm of what the std wheel says it should be - it looks straight and the front is equal spaced ref: the rods 

and the moral is ?? - I could have just used the std wheel relationship to swingarm, adjusted for the new wider wheel and hayho the wheel would have been +/- ok ref: axle spacing and then I would be blissfully unaware that i'm setting the chain adjustment on the cock, wondering why i'm eating sprockets and the bike having a bias for left versus right hand corners - ok this has been an error by someone putting the mark in the wrong place ( as said its a custom part versus production) - doesn't matter - taking the opportunity to Aline the wheels the hard way highlighted the error - its also confirmed the frame is good, both wheels dangle straight - bloomin good health check

now  :pimp:

Edited by nlovien
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But if you dont adjust for the wider wheel how do you adjust for the wider wheel? Afterall space is limited in a stock swingarm. Also as Jacktar has clearly shown us swingarm extensions are pretty much excluded from this matter (thank you for the help though buddy. Sorry for coming off kinda prickish...) as he says he needed to ADD 3mm of spacer to a wheel that is already 12mm wider at the hip (on that side). So basically a lot can get changed with extensions. Factory tolerances and any translatable reference goes straight out the window.

I get what you are saying. Until I go over my bike with a fine tooth comb using these tedious methods that you all apparently have known from birth I will never have your acceptance... But it will have big wheels on it though :)

  

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I am adjusting for the changed wheel width - thats the easy bit - TBH you don't need a forum discussion to achieve this basically A-B/2 sets the wheel ( once you know everything else is good) - position the wheel to this and make  bushings to fill the gaps

and if you know from previous knowledge that everything else is good, then for-sure you can simply do the above

but if you just assume everything else is good - hayho - live lucky - or you could take a different approach ( i'm helping a guy who is doing this method) = he is putting his chassis to a company with a jig = they will tell him if all is good so he can then go for A-B/2 or they will tell him "its not quite right but if you add / subtract Xmm from A-B/2 then you'll be good"

the long way takes away the assumption, removes the need for luck - its done, not so much to get your rear wheel in the right place, thats a positive outcome, its to confirm all is good with the chassis alignment - of which keeping the wheels inline is only part of - for most of us, chassis alignment is an important part of project building

 

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Truth is if the bike is tweaked I'm pretty sure there is no place to take it for untweaking. I am smack in the middle of (just get rid of that old jap junk and buy a harley) land. Nobody specializes in shit. There's a "grind it till it works" custom bike shop downtown with a major elitist (harley and Gurls blouse above all) attitude. And they suck... If I showed you guys some of their work you would be downright shocked and appalled.

I'll give you an example... This idiot I know took his blackbirdto get an f4i subframe (because he wanted a split tail instead of the old man touring seat on a bird). And it looks like shit but nevermind that... He says to the shop he wants a 4 into 1 header. So instead of telling this guy "well you should buy a 4 into 1 header from this brand or that brand" this custom shop plugs and welds shut his header on one side. There's your 4 into 1 blackbird. It is now restricted to 600 size exhaust. Sounds super quiet and weird. Complete shit show. And I'm sure all that welding cost a good portion of a nice 4 into 1 on Eblag...

The type of shops that will take advantage of every inch of what you dont know. 

Called the specialist machine shop in the yellow pages. Says right on their ad no order too small. they can make any bracket yada yada. Wouldn't even take my phone call for more than 10 seconds to say "we're too busy" and it sounded like he meant basically forever... So luckily I caught the part about teapot 600 caliper and bracket. Thats simple enough to take to somebody around here.

Edited by boilerdude
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22 hours ago, boilerdude said:

Truth is if the bike is tweaked I'm pretty sure there is no place to take it for untweaking. I am smack in the middle of (just get rid of that old jap junk and buy a harley) land. Nobody specializes in shit. There's a "grind it till it works" custom bike shop downtown with a major elitist (harley and Gurls blouse above all) attitude. And they suck... If I showed you guys some of their work you would be downright shocked and appalled.

Called the specialist machine shop in the yellow pages. Says right on their ad no order too small. they can make any bracket yada yada. Wouldn't even take my phone call for more than 10 seconds to say "we're too busy" and it sounded like he meant basically forever... So luckily I caught the part about teapot 600 caliper and bracket. Thats simple enough to take to somebody around here.

Feel your pain when it comes to finding "small shops" to get work done. Once I find one I keep them happy with little gifts, case of beer on those stupid hot summer Fridays, coffee and box of donuts when I pick up that small piece they did for me. This goes a long way!

I do not waste my time with big shops.

Fortunately I found a friend just down the street from me. He drove by one day, saw my garage door open and saw the projects in my shop. He came in introduced himself. He is a machinist with lathe and milling machine in his garage, 10 houses away from me:banana:.

I do projects for him and he does projects for me, full barter system:pimp:

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apologise for raising this thorny subject again - but I feel compelled to share my weekends frustration

yet another project build where I couldn't logically get the wheels to line up using the parallels - and as i've made a lot of bits for this one - inc steering stem yokes / spindles etc..  - what the fook have I fooked up 

I did check the swing arm before - but obviously not accurately enough - over the length of the spindles - this time I noted that there was a 1.8mm difference between the ends of the pivot bolt to a flat table where as the wheel spindle was equal distance

ok - so my simple logic is 0.9mm on the centre line - did a scale drawing +/- (trigonometry what the heck is that!) - so draw x 2 right angle lines from the two base lines where one is 0.9mm down from the other on the flat - hayho at 250mm = to the wheel rim ( not even inc. the tyre) and the centre line shifts by aprox 5mm - would be obviously more with a tyre on

so basically a twist in the swing arm that measured 1.8mm over the length of the spindle can throw your rear wheel contact off by atleast 5mm - yip my 2nd project in a row where the swing arm has been found to be twisted making wheel alignment bollocks

good to find the error - bollocks for all the time i've wasted  - apologise boilerdude - its why you got to go the long way = assume nothing

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BTW my 8mm offset was on a S/sider so not really much option there.

And when i machined the carrier, it was the castle'd nut/bolt face that got done so dragging the sprocket in toward wheel. Also reversing it, cos it was a JT stepped one too!

Pics are before & after.

 

 

DSCF0385.JPG

Crun.JPG

Edited by CockneyRick
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I apologize for poking at your build earlier. And other mean things I said. Bygons and all that. Thank any of you for coming back with constructive info. I am curious though why didn't you move the whole swingarm left? Something in the way? Suppose you'd have to move the shock mount as well.  Or perhaps too much machining involved on that left side and too many clearance issues? 

Anyhoo mines almost finished soon to be chained and sprocketed and done. I will see how fucked up it all is after it's all said and done (before the chain part...). I decided to just go with the efe caliper and bracket with half the pads being used for the moment. With future plans for my ingenius custom gsxr efe hybrid brake disc. Which I thought up all by my selfy self.

If you want the efe caliper perfectly centered on the gsxr disk (using the gsxr wheel spacer) you will want to machine 2mm into the caliper mounting points (and cut the bolts down 2mm). Or instead you could just use the efe wheel spacer but then you would reduce the caliper braket to (approximately) just 12mm.  Which would require slightly more structural metal taken off the bracket as it tapers outward.

 

 

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