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GSX 1100 EFE wheel swap


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Hi, I know its propably not the first thread on GSXR 750/1100 wheel swap. I've already found a useful and very detailed thread in here on a front GSXR 17X3,5 front wheel in the original forks. 

Whould be grateful in any advise for a rear GSXR 5,5 wheel in the EFE svingarm. From what I've found it could be a 5/8 offset sprocket front maybe with 530 chain and corrected ratios.

And maybe a GSX 1100 f carrier? To line it up with perhaps a 170 tire not to go to wide. Any that have details on how they have it working? 

Thanks

Edited by Dlindberg
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There are loads of ways all correct this is one way of doing it that uses standard 630 sprockets and chain, I used a GSXR 5.5" rear wheel with a 180 tyre in an extended standard swing arm. The home made locking plate allows the use of an 8mm spacer as the gearbox output shaft nut will only have around 1 thread showing without the tab washer.

 

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Edited by jacktar01
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Thanks I did see it in the other tread and thats very helpful indeed. Really Great job on the locking plate(y)

 I´m considering giving that a go to stay with the 630 setup (have an almost new chain and sprockets) I know some of the standard 630 front sprockets have small screws to attach a damper on the outside - could perhaps be used to fasten the locking plate. I also found that you can get a ´83 -´85 Kawasaki GPZ 750 630 oem  15T sprocket thats offset 6 mm (part no 13144-1084) and perhaps then it could work with a 2 mm spacer on the front sprocket, to get the 8 mm offset and have "enough threads on there still" - how are your thoughts on that ? The EFE carrier has not been machined down in your setup, right ?  

In the rear I´m getting the brake hanger disc and caliper from the GSXR (I have my wheels on the way from Germany= should be here soon:))  hoping that will Work if I stay with the complete setup from the GSXR and a new/ modfied GSX brake torque arm.

 

Think I will make it all fit and run straight temporarely with what I have around of tubing that can be cut Down and so, and then have the necessary bits machined.

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yes now that somebody has already spent 3 months digging for the right person to communicate. 

Also you can see in the animations jacktar01 needed to ADD approx 3mm to the sprocket side spacer. As dlindberg was inquiring about. Probably unsure of how to go about taking the measurements himself. Yet nobody is jumping down his throat for not just getting started. Matter of fact he's asking exactly what I was. AFTER having seen that whole circus of a thread already and HE is still unclear on the details and trying to ask the same question yet again... But he's probably a fellow brit so now we're all going to be positive and helpful right off the bat... 

One other thing Ive deduced from this whole exchange is if that other guy is running with his wheel 8mm off and his bike must be going down the road with a visible sidestep from the rear. And he says it doesn't bother him while riding. Then that tells me it's ok if the thing is off by a mm or 2 I suppose.

Also thanks for that tip about the kawasaki front sprocket. That is good additional info to be prepared with along the way.

Edited by boilerdude
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Happy Families all again around the world ......

 Dlindberg,

1. Correct I made the locking plate fit onto the pre drilled screws on the front sprocket, but a replacement 1 tooth bigger steel sprocket came un- drilled 

2. The offset Kwak sprockets were an option but I already had EFE standard gear.. and I am a tight-wad ha ha  

3. I didn't machine anything off the sprocket carrier just made a new new swing arm to carrier spacer using direct measurement and presume it was around 3mm wider

4. Similar sort of process for the brake side best use GSXR Hanger and calliper just fit it all on and direct measure spacers needed, I didn't have that so scratch made a hanger using the forge at work, bit of lathe work, bit of welder, and a bit of milling and all good.....Egay hanger and calliper next time ha ha

Boilerdude

1. You will need to direct measure the Carrier spacer needed as I presume its around 3mm wider cannot exactly remember, but I did make a new one up using a bit of stainless bar 

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Thank you. Understood. And after seeing how much offset others run without bother. Tells me I could in fact run a slightly thicker 4 or 5 mm added spacer and move the wheel 1 mm or 2 slightly towards my slightly crooked subframe. But no thats not the way. But it could be though. And I could save my output shaft more leverage. 

Understood. Any bike could be different. No one is to be held responsible for exact measurements. Though the oem spacers shouldn't be much different frome one efe to the next or between gsxrs of a certain vintage. Thats why I was thinking the wheels and the spacers should be all that is needed for initial centering. But there are a few different ways to skin a cat I reckon. 

Edited by boilerdude
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Ok so I got my wheels back from the machine shop (having nothing done yet). And took some quick measurements you can believe me or not.  With the efe sprocket carrier in the efe wheel and then efe carrier in gsxr wheel. 3mm most certainly does not need added on to the sprocket side spacer. There is approximately a 12.5mm difference to the center casting mark (not the most precise I know but it's there anyway.) and it is of course naturally the gsxr wheel which is a further distance. So approximately 12.5 mm needs cut off from the sprocket side by my measurements. (and the carrier hub itself will also need cut into. And also the sprocket bolts will need cut down to avoid fouling the swingarm. Just as with the gsxr carrier (or just pull them in with shims)) 

So now I wonder what carrier may offer more room yet. teapot 1100 perhaps. slabby. 88-89 750. I have the latter 2. gonna try and measure those up over the next few moments. Or perhaps I should just pick up a file and start shaving down my own spacer and then the actual hub and each of the sprocket bolts until the wheel is properly centered. 

Perhaps I could have the cush flaps and rubbers cut down And that inner spacer. bring it in that way. just a thought. The spacer would be the first thing. and then the flaps and rubbers merely need to fit firmly afterward.. I doubt there is clearance for the chain to the tire with this method. 

It really is starting to look like the best way to do this clean and proper is (bandit) swingarm swap with the upper shock mount welding. 

Edited by boilerdude
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I was thinking a bit along the same lines regarding carriers .. 

is there any difference in the carriers in the GSXR 750/1100 wheels (those with 17X5.5 rears) -will the EFE carrier fit all /or are some GSXR rears no match there. Not thinking the first GSXRs with 5 piece dampers - but if theres a change in 89-91 wheels and 92-95 (-to 98 GSXR 1100 )

?

Edited by Dlindberg
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With my Bandit wheel into my GS1000 I used the GS sprocket carrier, machined down a couple of mm and then turned the sprocket over. The JT sprocket I used has a step down on one side by a couple mm. This combined with the sprocket carrier machined down gave me 5 mm of chain to frame clearance.

As stated, just get the sprocket carrier machined down, no need to cut cushions either. Then you need to slightly shorten the sprocket mounting bolts to clear swinger.

IIRC the 6 Cush carriers are all the same.

Edited by Fjbj40
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Thanks guys(y) got a bit stuck looking at OEM partnumbers, waiting for my wheels from a 93 GSXR 750 W.

Seems that the dampers from EFE are same partnumber as 89-92 GSXR and from then on at least the partnumbers differs (but did find some 'improved' aftermarket rubber cush that fits All years 89-95 so must be about the same)

 

 

Edited by Dlindberg
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I took the cush rubbers out of each wheel for better measurement to make sure the efe carrier fits into either hub exactly the same when up against the spacer (as it is certainly against the spacer when everything gets tightened down.) And the efe carrier fits perfectly flush with the outer wall of the hub on either wheel. So that tells me now I can simply measure from that outer lip on each hub to the center of the wheel. And once again I got a difference in the ballpark of 12.5 - 12.75 mmSo the outer spacer needs about that much taken off. And then the carrier itself and the large rubber seal both will need shaved back for clearance. So that the spacer is of course the first thing to contact... And then address the bolts. 

The spacer itself is about 13.3mm So all thats left is going to be 1mm or less. So NOW is the part where we can maybe find a washer to suit. 1 or 2 mm thick would be just fine. Though I do intend to get even more precise measurements yet. I'm going to take the tire off the efe wheel and measure the rim from lip to lip and get the exact center marked somehow. And then the same for the gsxr wheel. 

I understand that each bike is different. And while aligning with the front wheel may in fact be the better way of doing this swap on any individual bike. I'm choosing the route of measuring wheels and spacers because something tells me those particular parts are much more similar between one bike or the next. And getting measurements this way will make the process more documentable and duplicable in the future. So that the gsxr wheel is spaced exactly as the efe wheel was in the swingarm. However crooked the rest of that particular bike may have become over time. Those issues need addressed directly to their own right. The wheel is going to go exactly where the other wheel was. So that this can be a documented duplicable thing.  

Edited by boilerdude
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you mean get things exactly right and not just rush it together and go down the road crooked. and actually line up more than just the sprockets. sure. it's called being meticulous. and if I buy another efe and want to do the same thing to it indeed I wont need to do any of this "fannying" about. I will be the first out of hundreds of people to do this and actually keep accurate measurements documented. 

I could just machine the sprocket carrier all the way down until the inner spacer is now the only spacer. and the wheel would be only a mm or 2 off to the left. But I dont wanna do that. 

Your method of aligning with the front wheel does appear straightforward and fool proof. But I have reasons that I'm not going to do it that way. Every bike is different true... So then if somebody were going to make this a replicable kit one day... Or at least document accurate measurements for what needs cut... It should not be measured to one entire bike with crookedness and imperfections from 1985 throughout. I am going to measure with rear wheels and spacers (because those particular parts ARE very precise and the same from one bike to the next) so that this will work on the next efe I may come across. And the next after that.  

 

 

Edited by boilerdude
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you mentioned something about taking 15mm off of your sprocket carrier. I dont really know which carrier you were using or if your bike was even an efe. and also if you measured from your front wheel to rear and got your alignment that way there may be an average error of a few mms that every bike is slightly different. If yours is a 3 or 4 mm this way bike and mine is a 3 or 4 mm that way bike. there could be an error of 5-7mm when comparing straightness from one bike to another.  manufactured in 1985.

but I did take your advice to jump in and go about this my own way. perhaps even the same way with the rulers after all. although that particular method I would only trust done with one bike. And could not confidently transfer that data to another efe wheel swap. 

Edited by boilerdude
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1 hour ago, boilerdude said:

you mentioned something about taking 15mm off of your sprocket carrier. I dont really know which carrier you were using or if your bike was even an efe. and also if you measured from your front wheel to rear and got your alignment that way there may be an average error of a few mms that every bike is slightly different. If yours is a 3 or 4 mm this way bike and mine is a 3 or 4 mm that way bike. there could be an error of 5-7mm when comparing straightness from one bike to another.  manufactured in 1985.

but I did take your advice to jump in and go about this my own way. perhaps even the same way with the rulers after all. although that particular method I would only trust done with one bike. And could not confidently transfer that data to another efe wheel swap. 

I mentioned my results and the way I did it to give you some inspiration to go and do it yourself,  not to tell you how much to machine off your sprocket carrier. Which is kind of the point. And you did, so, good.

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Found what I was looking for. http://www.aircooledsuzuki.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=301&start=20

Was googling around for oil cooled into efe motor mount bluebrints (so I can just have those made before I get started). And I stumbled across this. A time when people used to be much more helpful I guess.

The photos have expired but I have most of the info I need from posts throughout the thread. Airfix kit style set of instructions and whatnot. All thats left to figure out is placing the efe caliper correctly on the gsxr disk with custom bracket dimensions. which can be figured out. It would be great if somebody would just update their photobucket account. But I've definitely got enough to get the ball rolling. 

No offense toward you gs. but clearly some others have grown tired of being as helpful as they used to be. It has been done enough times that yes someone did document accurate spacer thickness to get maximum tire clearance to either side of the swingarm. And they were once happy to at least point others toward the info.

Who am I kidding. You guys probably already pm'd this info to dlindberg (I did anyway because I like to help folks like that). So he can just get it done straight away. 

Edited by boilerdude
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now I know it's the right way. you seem super rattled that I finally found it. and no more snide remarks about how im still going about it the wrong way.

Right then... onward with life. You assholes do whatever you want.

I'm still going to have enough of a fun time figuring out the caliper mount. without big pictures to look at. But I'll manage.

Edited by boilerdude
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