Turbo good or bad

[mick-ne]

Hi , As I was passing I called in to see Dave Dunlop today had a bit crack about recommended Turbos.

 He suggested speaking to others with turbobikes so I wondered what are you running or have run good or bad and how much power.

How many are running Chinese ?

Any advice greatly appreciated.

[Reinhoud]

I had a turbo from a Mitsubishi Evo 3, what was to big, I think it was a TD05 16G.

Maximum torque at just over 5000rpm, started building power at 4500rpm.

How much power? 150atw on dyno, after fidling around with jets and ignition timing I estimate I had about 210/220hp at the crank.

 

Don't go Chinese, I had one for $300, it was crap, also don't let the turbo spin without any oil, the stuff up real quick!!

 

Mine ran fine, but it took some work.

Also, make sure the internals can handle the extra power, mine couldn't...

[Arttu]

Turbo is good, no turbo bad

Seriously, choice depends heavily on your preferences. How much power you want, what is planned use, how much you are willing to spend etc. There are plenty of options for good results.

As far I know there is plenty of quality variation on Chinese (unbranded) turbos. Best of them are as good as anything else, worst might might be just lump of metal barely resembling a turbo. If you get one from some reputable distributor it will probably work just fine. Lowest price *bay find might be different story. I don't have much personal experience about them but I know that plenty of people are using them with good results and I haven't heard too many horror stories recently.

[mick-ne]

To add a little motor will be 1200 bandit out to 1216 with Busa pistons. Blowthrough for street use,  I do not have a set power I want but would like over 200 if possible and something that pulls strong from quite low down.

Thanks for the replies

[Arttu]

All right then, some candidates that should fit to those requirements:

Mitsubishi TD04-13, TD04-16, TD05-16. Max. power roughly 230-300+ hp.

KKK / Borg Warner K04. 210-300hp depending on version. Be careful if buying used one, plenty of cracked exhaust housings.

Garrett GT2560R, GT2860R. 270-350hp. Aftermarket ball bearing turbos. Nice option if budget allows.

Holset HE221, HX27. About 300hp. Reasonably priced as new. Maybe not the most optimal for your case as they are optimized for quite high boost (I think).

Then IHI makes some nice ball bearing turbos as well. I have a VF34 on my 1230cc GSX and I like it a lot but it might be slightly on large side for your plans (350+ hp). There are smaller versions too but I can't recall models right now.

200hp should be easy for 1200 Bandit. I think it should handle up to 300hp without major updates to the engine.

[Fula28]

I like many used Td04 Hl16T  from Volvo t5R straight flanged made 210bhp nice simple unit and well made by Mitsubishi. 

[Paulm]

Im using a IHI VF10 on mine Mick,putting out 189BHP at the rear wheel.

[MeanBean49]

I had an imprezza TD04 to start with on 1216 with busa pistons Was a good turbo for the road, limit of around 250bhp before it was struggling. Nice and useable and picked up from around 3000rpm.

Got a IHI VF23 off an imprezza now. What a difference, spools up from same low rpm, but does it much quicker. Makes 200ft lbs of torque at 6k and 280bhp at 15psi without the bike breaking a sweat. Goint to push it a bit harder this year now ive got a stronger motor, dont think im going to struggle to get 300+ bhp. I use the bike on road and track, power delivery is really smooth

Good thing about the subaru turbos is they are dead easy to swap one for another

[mick-ne]

Thanks for all the replies. MeanBean your IHI sounds the biz  I have been looking but haven't seen one for sale new or even used most Subaru seem to have TD05 fitted.

[Paulm]

VF 23,24 don't come up for sale very often in my experience Mick,a lot of people use TD04.

[Rene EFE]

Turbo = Good 

[MeanBean49]

VF22 is the one you really want for big power.

Td04 are whats fitted to most imprezzas, the vf range are fitted to the upper end variants. I think vf23 like I have was on the 22b's

Has been a few on Eblag recently relatively cheap. 

I think as well the later model imprezzas used a vf34 whick is very similar performance wise to vf23

[no class]

On 2017-02-16 at 6:10 AM, MeanBean49 said:

I had an imprezza TD04 to start with on 1216 with busa pistons Was a good turbo for the road, limit of around 250bhp before it was struggling. Nice and useable and picked up from around 3000rpm.

Got a IHI VF23 off an imprezza now. What a difference, spools up from same low rpm, but does it much quicker. Makes 200ft lbs of torque at 6k and 280bhp at 15psi without the bike breaking a sweat. Goint to push it a bit harder this year now ive got a stronger motor, dont think im going to struggle to get 300+ bhp. I use the bike on road and track, power delivery is really smooth

Good thing about the subaru turbos is they are dead easy to swap one for another

Very impressive .... do you have any dyno graphs from your set-up ?  Timing / fueling info ? I am sure quite a few gents on here ( myself invluded) could use the info as a guide ......

[MeanBean49]

Stock timing, stock ignition curve  (run an ignitech fully programable cdi, i did initially take 1 degree out of the ignition above 9500rpm to be safe but put it back after it proved safe)

Fueling is stock bandit 12 carbs with 130 main jets (still with plastic carb tops) and 2psi base pressure, running on optimax pump fuel.

Ran on dyno at 15psi when it made 200lbs ft and 278 bhp. Will see if i can dig out graph. I have it running slightly rich all the way through the range beacause cant get the same airflow on the dyno as on the road. Plugs are perfect colour. Made 25bhp difference putting 30mph of airflow from dyno fans straigh through intercooler.

I have run 17psi with no problems on the road

Nothing special about my setup really.

[Arttu]

4 hours ago, MeanBean49 said:

VF22 is the one you really want for big power.

Td04 are whats fitted to most imprezzas, the vf range are fitted to the upper end variants. I think vf23 like I have was on the 22b's

Has been a few on Eblag recently relatively cheap. 

I think as well the later model imprezzas used a vf34 whick is very similar performance wise to vf23

Tricky thing with these IHI turbos is that there isn't much specifications available for them, like compressor maps etc. In addition model numbering doesn't seem to follow any logic. However, there are some listings about different models around the web with brief descriptions and estimated flow capabilities. If I recall correctly VF22 was the biggest one, like said. VF34 is just slightly smaller but later design and supposedly quicker to spool. VF36 was very similar to VF34 but with dual entry turbine housing and again slightly smaller. The rest I can't remember. It's also worth of noting that some VF models are with plain bearings.

[MeanBean49]

44 minutes ago, Arttu said:

Tricky thing with these IHI turbos is that there isn't much specifications available for them, like compressor maps etc. In addition model numbering doesn't seem to follow any logic. However, there are some listings about different models around the web with brief descriptions and estimated flow capabilities. If I recall correctly VF22 was the biggest one, like said. VF34 is just slightly smaller but later design and supposedly quicker to spool. VF36 was very similar to VF34 but with dual entry turbine housing and again slightly smaller. The rest I can't remember. It's also worth of noting that some VF models are with plain bearings.

Theres a quite handy guide on them all that floats about the subaru tuners pages. List them all with description and what sort of power the make and how they perform

[MeanBean49]

https://www.scoobynet.com/general-technical-10/945355-ihi-vf-turbo-specs.html

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1039161

Handy info

[Diebythereaper]

Great info there MeanBean, can I just add my experience -Garrett - first plain bearing T3/T4, great little turbo and loads of torque and had an internal wastegate that was hard to tune with so I jumped to a Gt2860rs (disco potato) - fabulous sound from the ball bearing and spooled really fast, fitted an external wastgate and havent looked back since - 288bhp and I cant remember the torque but anything over 220bhp is not needed for the road imo, you cant use it

[no class]

34 minutes ago, Diebythereaper said:

Great info there MeanBean, can I just add my experience -Garrett - first plain bearing T3/T4, great little turbo and loads of torque and had an internal wastegate that was hard to tune with so I jumped to a Gt2860rs (disco potato) - fabulous sound from the ball bearing and spooled really fast, fitted an external wastgate and havent looked back since - 288bhp and I cant remember the torque but anything over 220bhp is not needed for the road imo, you cant use it

I guess that draw through system you were running way back when is no comparison lol ,,,,how you been ?  

[MeanBean49]

10 hours ago, Diebythereaper said:

Great info there MeanBean, can I just add my experience -Garrett - first plain bearing T3/T4, great little turbo and loads of torque and had an internal wastegate that was hard to tune with so I jumped to a Gt2860rs (disco potato) - fabulous sound from the ball bearing and spooled really fast, fitted an external wastgate and havent looked back since - 288bhp and I cant remember the torque but anything over 220bhp is not needed for the road imo, you cant use it

Course it is needed. Use all of mine everytime i go out.

No fun otherwise

[Diebythereaper]

Draw through was like a poorly running two stroke with a powervalve - all or nothing, Blow through rides like a normal bike low down and a good kick when singing, just my experience.

I've been good, thanks for asking! 

[mick-ne]

Diebythereaper could you put some pics up of your external gate setup on here very interested, Thanks again everyone for sharing info.

[Kid Kearsley]

Turbo everything. I managed 328bhp back in the day  GT28 on 1216

I wanna venture into 400bhp territory, gotta have dreams right, so I'm building a sacrificial pig to do the dirty work with. 

[Bigkenxx]

Mines a td 04 with welded up wastegate off a Impreza bought it for a tenner had no problems with it not sure on power don't really believe dynos depends if it's calibrated right I know it spins up and wheelies so that keeps me happy.    

[colinworth79]

Turbo it !!!! Td04-16t on mine at mo 15-16 psi . Enough power for picking the front wheel off the ground at over 150 mph . Only downside is your bank account getting smaller and constant fiddling for the search for more power .